giffgaff: thieving, lying, scum
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From: andy on 30 Mar 2010 18:57 On 30 Mar, 13:06, "Steve Purdy" <removethis.np. 201...(a)roundtuit.org.uk> wrote: > >"andy" <andy.gg...(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message > >news:1d040921-8abc-4ecb-9d44-2df3562c43c6(a)35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > >On 29 Mar, 22:27, Martin Jay <mar...(a)spam-free.org.uk> wrote: > >> On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 13:39:24 -0700 (PDT), andy > > >> <andy.gg...(a)googlemail.com> wrote: > >> >On 29 Mar, 14:05, Martin Jay <mar...(a)spam-free.org.uk> wrote: > >> >>I have emailed 2ergo to request a refund of GBP5.10. I'm waiting for > >> >>a response. > >> >The fact you've done it at last doesn't mean I was mistaken when I > >> >have previously referred to you persistently refusing to do so > > >> As I keep pointing out, the mobile phone contract is between myself > >> and giffgaff. There is no contract between myself and 2ergo. 2ergo > >> is under no obligation to refund me. > > >> You appear to have no understanding of what a contract is. giffgaff > >> have incorrectly billed me for a premium rate text message. There > >> appears to be no doubt about that. Therefore, giffgaff should refund > >> the payment they took for it and then obtain a refund from 'the > >> sender' (or, more likely, the next link in the chain). > >> -- > > >You've persistently ignored or rebutted help and advice > > >After all this time, you obviously still haven't phoned Phonepayplus > >(on their freephone number) and asked their advice about this > > >As the replies you get keep pointing out, and which Phonepayplus > >itself would tell you, you need to contact the number provider, not > >your mobile network. > > How is he supposed to map a 5 digit number on his bill to some company that > then shares their number with umpteen other companies? > Why ask such a stupid question which has been already answered in early replies on Martin's thread on the giffgaff forum, and repeatedly again on here? 1. giffgaff told him the short-code number 2. I told him how to contact the number provider, after looking it up on the Phonepayplus website 3. when he said that was pointless, I phoned them to confirm that they would be able to give him details of the service provider, and told him that So there is no need for rhetorical pretence that there is any difficulty involved in identifying these services.
From: Andrew Templeman on 31 Mar 2010 06:21 Steve Purdy <removethis.np.201003(a)roundtuit.org.uk> wrote: > > And as Martin has repeatedly pointed out you are ignoring the simple fact > that he has no contract with, or knowledge of, anyone other than GiffGaff. > How is he supposed to map a 5 digit number on his bill to some company that > then shares their number with umpteen other companies? > > This whole reverse pay SMS thing would be a lot cleaner if it was the > Telecom companies that had, by law, to sort out the mess - think of it as > exactly like the banking Direct Debit scheme where the banks refund > erroneous charging and then chase the bad guys. That way the bad guys in the > SMS scam camp will dissappear quite quickly as the telecoms companies will > simply not deal with those that indulge in sharp practice. (likewise they > can blacklist customers who keep trying on getting a refund when they did > indeed request the SMS) > > If they had to refund first and ask questions later you can bet that an > opt-in scheme would make it to their systems before the next daybreak or > else they would implement a system that logged a request sent to the 8xxxx > number that would allow a single reply from that same 8xxxx number then cut > it off again - job done as your phone must have requested it. > > At the moment its just a charter to steal as it's just too hard to sort for > 'only' �5 unless you are Martin - Well done to him. > Completely agree with this. Had one of these a couple of years ago on the wife's phone. She had never sent a request but was billed a couple of quid for a single sms. Someone must have put her number into a website form, probably by mistake. Our contract is and was with orange. They invoiced us for goods we didn't request. It's up to them to refund and chase any third party that they do the billing for to get proof that they should charge. -- Andy Templeman <http://www.templeman.org.uk/>
From: Steve Terry on 31 Mar 2010 15:17 "Andrew Templeman" <andy(a)templeman.org.uk> wrote in message news:1jg7ty1.us0rwn11w3adqN%andy(a)templeman.org.uk... > Steve Purdy <removethis.np.201003(a)roundtuit.org.uk> wrote: <snip> > Had one of these a couple of years ago on the wife's phone. She had > never sent a request but was billed a couple of quid for a single sms. > > Someone must have put her number into a website form, probably by > mistake. > > How would putting her number into a website fake her SMS header? More likely her SMS and thousands of others were intentionally faked by a hacker paid by someone in the reverse charge SMS industry. But of course Ofcom and the networks will tell you that couldn't happen Steve Terry -- O2 Simplicity Sim up to �160 cashback at: http://www.topcashback.co.uk/o2/ If you use top cashback please use my referral: http://www.topcashback.co.uk/ref/G4WWK
From: Justin Credible on 4 Apr 2010 11:19 "Andrew Templeman" <andy(a)templeman.org.uk> wrote in message news:1jg7ty1.us0rwn11w3adqN%andy(a)templeman.org.uk... > > Completely agree with this. > > Had one of these a couple of years ago on the wife's phone. She had > never sent a request but was billed a couple of quid for a single sms. > > Someone must have put her number into a website form, probably by > mistake. > > Our contract is and was with orange. They invoiced us for goods we > didn't request. It's up to them to refund and chase any third party that > they do the billing for to get proof that they should charge. > > > -- > Andy Templeman <http://www.templeman.org.uk/> Yep, I hardly use my mobile and I would be a classic candidate for a pay-as-you-go handset. The one reason I won't is the fear of getting scammed by these sorts of cowboy fraudsters. You top up with �10 and when you need to use your phone a month later you find your credit's evaporated. I speak from bitter experience (two different contracts, different periods of time, but both with Orange). The first contract I had I wasn't aware of anything untoward until my invoice arrived and I'd been billed for 16 lots of �1.28+VAT. Orange "customer service" tried fobbing me off by telling me I had to deal with the shortcode operator. I had to escalate it to their Customer Services Director with the threat of legal action unless he could provide the audit trail that proved I'd opted in. They backed down very quickly, conceded there was no text sent from my phone, refunded me in full (a month later so I still had to dig into my pockets for the spurious charges) and offered the excuse that they use recycled numbers and my number must have been one that was previously subscribed to said services. Funny how everything had been fine for the first seven months of the contract....... Second contract was even better; I missed delivery of my new phone and a sudden family bereavement 200 miles away meant I couldn't go and collect it for the best part of a week. Upon turning it on, I received the usual sim updates and then three (obvious) dodgy texts ("girls are waiting for you now, text xxxxx"). I phoned Orange next morning and it was confirmed that there were charges against my account for those texts, dated from four days previous. "The phone's been in a sealed box, how have I requested these texts?" says I. "Through a website" says the clueless customer service bod. Same scenario as before, the threat of legal action to their CSD did the trick but I've never used Orange again. Oh, and for the record, an outfit called Stream were the cowboy scammers involved. Again, they conceded that no opt-in text had been sent from my phone but this time could offer no explanation. I offered the thought that Stream were scammers and were abusing Orange's network and I was told Orange group Security would investigate. Six weeks later, I received a reply saying they were unable to offer an explanation because "the shortcode operator has failed to respond to our requests for information"!!!!! You couldn't make it up. The only reason I stick with a contract is that at least that way you can claw your money back from the network provider if you're scammed. The reverse-charge industry needs a bomb put under it. Sorry andy, you might well work for one of the very few legitimate outfits but they are few and far between.
From: andy on 4 Apr 2010 15:32
On 4 Apr, 16:19, "Justin Credible" <matt.fin...(a)btopenworld.com> wrote: > > The reverse-charge industry needs a bomb put under it. Sorry andy, you > might well work for one of the very few legitimate outfits but they are few > and far between. You don't have to copy other people's false accusations I don't work for or have any undisclosed interest in any company related to phones My only use of premium rate messages has been described in my previous replies |