Aplgies for errors and confusion was Re: newcomer
in [UK Mac]
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From: David Empson on 25 Jan 2010 07:24 T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> wrote: > On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 08:06:21 +0000, peterd.news(a)gmail.invalid (Pd) > wrote: > > > >"one of the most common complaints from new Windows and Linux/Unix > >switchers is that many of the shortcuts they are used to, such as using > >the Home and End keys to move to the beginning, respectively end, of a > >line or document, don't work as they expect in OS X." > > (Aside) And, when logging into a domain and it asks you to press Ctrl > + Alt + Del and if you are using a Mac with mini kbd / Win you have to > press Ctrl + Alt + Backspace? In VMware Fusion on my MacBook Pro, I can use Fn-Ctrl-Option-Delete to generate Ctrl-Alt-Del. On the US keyboard (which I'm using in New Zealand), the various keys have words on them ("fn", "ctrl", "option" and "delete" respectively). The option key also has "alt" written on it. On the UK keyboard: 1. The option key is labelled with a symbol that looks like a railyard switch, which appears in menu shortcuts. It also says "alt" on it. Despite that, the key's official name is "option". 2. The delete key is labelled with a symbol that appears to be a leftward pointing arrow. I don't know why Apple chose that particular symbol as they don't use it in menu shortcuts (e.g. see the Empty Trash shortcut in Finder) and it could be confused with the left arrow key. It is in the same position as the backspace key would be on a typical Windows PC keyboard. > So is the Mac key with the left facing arrow actually Del under OSX > but backspaces under Windows? It is "Delete" on the Macintosh, and it does a backwards delete, same as Backspace on Windows. "Del" is a separate key on an extended keyboard which does a forward delete in most applications. You can use Fn-Delete to generate Del on a laptop or other Apple keyboard which is missing a Del key. -- David Empson dempson(a)actrix.gen.nz
From: T i m on 25 Jan 2010 07:48 On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 01:24:29 +1300, dempson(a)actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote: >> >> (Aside) And, when logging into a domain and it asks you to press Ctrl >> + Alt + Del and if you are using a Mac with mini kbd / Win you have to >> press Ctrl + Alt + Backspace? > >In VMware Fusion on my MacBook Pro, I can use Fn-Ctrl-Option-Delete to >generate Ctrl-Alt-Del. Oooerr. There's little chance of me remembering such things. Sfunny, after all these years with Windows I didn't know about the Windows+U option till the other day when I found it when Googling, offered as a solution for a missing backslash when trying to log into a domain from the same keyboard (iMac / Vista). We were hoping we could input a backslash from the on-screen keyboard but had to re-map the keyboard instead. > >On the US keyboard (which I'm using in New Zealand), the various keys >have words on them ("fn", "ctrl", "option" and "delete" respectively). >The option key also has "alt" written on it. Same here (Apply white / transparent). > >On the UK keyboard: > >1. The option key is labelled with a symbol that looks like a railyard >switch, which appears in menu shortcuts. It also says "alt" on it. >Despite that, the key's official name is "option". Yep, mine has Alt and railway points. As did the mini flat one I think (or we would have been further thrown when logging in). > >2. The delete key is labelled with a symbol that appears to be a >leftward pointing arrow. I don't know why Apple chose that particular >symbol as they don't use it in menu shortcuts (e.g. see the Empty Trash >shortcut in Finder) and it could be confused with the left arrow key. It >is in the same position as the backspace key would be on a typical >Windows PC keyboard. And on this Mini / XP does the same thing as I'd expect (backspace - delete). > >> So is the Mac key with the left facing arrow actually Del under OSX >> but backspaces under Windows? > >It is "Delete" on the Macintosh, and it does a backwards delete, same as >Backspace on Windows. So not 'delete' then? <confused> > >"Del" is a separate key on an extended keyboard which does a forward >delete in most applications Agreed, I also have the Delete key and it does what I would expect the Del key to do (delete chr to the right) >You can use Fn-Delete to generate Del on a >laptop or other Apple keyboard which is missing a Del key. Thanks for that, assuming I remember it could come in handy one day! ;-) T i m.
From: David Empson on 25 Jan 2010 09:12 T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 01:24:29 +1300, dempson(a)actrix.gen.nz (David > Empson) wrote: > > >> > >> (Aside) And, when logging into a domain and it asks you to press Ctrl > >> + Alt + Del and if you are using a Mac with mini kbd / Win you have to > >> press Ctrl + Alt + Backspace? > > > >In VMware Fusion on my MacBook Pro, I can use Fn-Ctrl-Option-Delete to > >generate Ctrl-Alt-Del. > > Oooerr. There's little chance of me remembering such things. Easy enough once you know that Fn-Delete is used to generate the Del key. The rest is the same as Windows (given Option = Alt, as labelled on the key). Besides that, VMware Fusion has a menu command to send Ctrl-Alt-Del to the virtual machine. I assume Parallels Desktop and VirtualBox have something similar. > >2. The delete key is labelled with a symbol that appears to be a > >leftward pointing arrow. I don't know why Apple chose that particular > >symbol as they don't use it in menu shortcuts (e.g. see the Empty Trash > >shortcut in Finder) and it could be confused with the left arrow key. It > >is in the same position as the backspace key would be on a typical > >Windows PC keyboard. > > And on this Mini / XP does the same thing as I'd expect (backspace - > delete). > > > >> So is the Mac key with the left facing arrow actually Del under OSX > >> but backspaces under Windows? > > > >It is "Delete" on the Macintosh, and it does a backwards delete, same as > >Backspace on Windows. > > So not 'delete' then? <confused> I don't understand the question. The key deletes text to the left, so it does do a "delete". It just has a different name to the one Windows uses. > >"Del" is a separate key on an extended keyboard which does a forward > >delete in most applications > > Agreed, I also have the Delete key and it does what I would expect the > Del key to do (delete chr to the right) I assume you are talking about an extended keyboard with a block of six keys above the inverted "T" arrow keys. The Del key normally lives in the bottom left corner of that group of six keys. On my older Apple Pro Keyboard, that key is labelled "Del" and has a symbol on it to show it does a forward delete (x inside a truncated rightward pointing arrow). If you have a third party keyboard, it is probably labelled "Del" or "Delete" as that is what Windows calls it. According to Mac OS X Help, the official names for the two keys in question are "Delete" and "Forward Delete". > >You can use Fn-Delete to generate Del on a > >laptop or other Apple keyboard which is missing a Del key. > > Thanks for that, assuming I remember it could come in handy one day! > ;-) > > T i m. -- David Empson dempson(a)actrix.gen.nz
From: T i m on 25 Jan 2010 15:19 On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:12:48 +1300, dempson(a)actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote: >> >> So is the Mac key with the left facing arrow actually Del under OSX >> >> but backspaces under Windows? >> > >> >It is "Delete" on the Macintosh, and it does a backwards delete, same as >> >Backspace on Windows. >> >> So not 'delete' then? <confused> > >I don't understand the question. The key deletes text to the left, so it >does do a "delete". > It just has a different name to the one Windows >uses. Ok, the Backspace deletes the chr to the left of the cursor and the Delete key deletes the chr to it's right (creating a gap into which the text to the right moves). It does so under XP on this Mac Mini and Apple keyboard, just as it would on a PC / XP. So, the keys are the same name and function as on a PC keyboard. Is that an agree? ;-) > >> >"Del" is a separate key on an extended keyboard which does a forward >> >delete in most applications >> >> Agreed, I also have the Delete key and it does what I would expect the >> Del key to do (delete chr to the right) > >I assume you are talking about an extended keyboard with a block of six >keys above the inverted "T" arrow keys. The Del key normally lives in >the bottom left corner of that group of six keys. Yup, that's the one. > >On my older Apple Pro Keyboard, that key is labelled "Del" and has a >symbol on it to show it does a forward delete (x inside a truncated >rightward pointing arrow). Yup, have that key. > >If you have a third party keyboard, it is probably labelled "Del" or >"Delete" as that is what Windows calls it. No, the keys I have are the same as most PC keyboards I've come across. I think the original question is that if to log into a Windows Domain I need to press Control+Alt+Delete, how would I do that if I didn't see the Delete key. <checks> Right trying it here on this Extended keyboard it seems that whilst the Backspace and Delete keys do different things to text, they both act as triggers to the need to Ctrl+Alt+<del OR Backspace>. ;-) > >According to Mac OS X Help, the official names for the two keys in >question are "Delete" and "Forward Delete". Ok, and what I would call Backspace and Delete. > Cheers, T i m
From: David Empson on 25 Jan 2010 17:13
T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 03:12:48 +1300, dempson(a)actrix.gen.nz (David > Empson) wrote: > > > >> >> So is the Mac key with the left facing arrow actually Del under OSX > >> >> but backspaces under Windows? > >> > > >> >It is "Delete" on the Macintosh, and it does a backwards delete, same as > >> >Backspace on Windows. > >> > >> So not 'delete' then? <confused> > > > >I don't understand the question. The key deletes text to the left, so it > >does do a "delete". > >It just has a different name to the one Windows uses. > > Ok, the Backspace deletes the chr to the left of the cursor and the > Delete key deletes the chr to it's right (creating a gap into which > the text to the right moves). It does so under XP on this Mac Mini > and Apple keyboard, just as it would on a PC / XP. So, the keys are > the same name and function as on a PC keyboard. Is that an agree? ;-) No, they have different names but the same function. The offical Mac name for the key which deletes to the left is "Delete". It is labelled "delete" on Apple's US keyboard, or with a leftward pointing arrow on the UK keyboard. The official Mac name for the key which deletes to the right is "Forward Delete". It is labelled "Del" or "Delete" with a forward delete icon on Apple keyboards. If you are running Windows on a Mac, the first key is used as Backspace and the second one is Del/Delete (which are in the same position on a standard MS-DOS/Windows PC keyboard). They act the same in Mac OS X or Windows. > >If you have a third party keyboard, it is probably labelled "Del" or > >"Delete" as that is what Windows calls it. > > No, the keys I have are the same as most PC keyboards I've come > across. I think the original question is that if to log into a Windows > Domain I need to press Control+Alt+Delete, how would I do that if I > didn't see the Delete key. My points are that: 1. You always have a "Delete" key on the Macintosh. It is the one with the leftward pointing arrow above the Return key (on a UK keyboard). It acts as Backspace in Windows and has the same "delete left" function in Mac OS X. 2. The key labelled "Del" or "Delete" with a forward delete symbol is "Forward Delete". 3. If you want to do Ctrl-Alt-Del in Windows on a Mac, and you have the Forward Delete key, you use that key (and it is in the same position as the corresponding key on a Windows keyboard). 4. If you want to do Ctrl-Alt-Del in Windows on a Mac, and you don't have the Forward Delete key on the keyboard, you can generate it with Fn-Delete (i.e. the Delete key which is in the same position as Backspace on a Windows keyboard). > <checks> Right trying it here on this > Extended keyboard it seems that whilst the Backspace and Delete keys > do different things to text, they both act as triggers to the need to > Ctrl+Alt+<del OR Backspace>. ;-) That depends on the particular method you have for running Windows. Some VM software may map the Ctrl-Option-Delete [Backspace] key combination to Ctrl-Alt-Del by default. VMware Fusion doesn't do that. It requires use of the Forward Delete key, or Fn-Delete (Fn-Backspace in Windows terms) to generate the Forward Delete key. I could probably add a custom mapping for Ctrl-Option-Delete [Backspace] to generate Ctrl-Option-Forward Delete (Ctrl-Alt-Del). > >According to Mac OS X Help, the official names for the two keys in > >question are "Delete" and "Forward Delete". > > Ok, and what I would call Backspace and Delete. Which are the correct names in Windows, but not in Mac OS X. -- David Empson dempson(a)actrix.gen.nz |