Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 8 Jul 2008 21:03 On Jul 7, 7:09 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > On Jul 7, 10:08 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > On Jul 6, 8:21 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > > > <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > On Jul 6, 11:54 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jul 5, 2:31 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > On Jul 5, 2:42 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > >> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > >>> On Jul 4, 3:22 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > >>>>> On Jul 3, 11:28 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>> On Jul 3, 1:55 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 8:35 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 2:03 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 11:59 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 1:04 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 12:20 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 30, 1:19�pm, Enkidu <fox_rgf....(a)trashmail.net> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in news:22183802-cf28-4305-af11- > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7d254b106...(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are the one being deliberately obtuse. � The existence of the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnel validates many other things said in the Bible about the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assyrian invasion of Judea. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Hobbit" talks of ale, axes, and forests which we know exist. Does that > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> validate Orcs, Elves, Dwarves, trolls, magic rings, walking trees and Tom > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bombadil? > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Enkidu AA#2165 � > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EAC Chaplain and ordained minister, > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ULC, Modesto, CA > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doesn't anything socialistic make you want to throw up? Like great public > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schools, or health insurance for all? > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> � � �-Kurt Vonnegut > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you decide for yourself?  You were the one who thought of > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you try to defend your assertions? How can we know we can > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trust what you say?- Hide quoted text - > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It does not matter to me what you trust.  You decide what you are > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to trust. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can't provide any sensible reason to believe your fanciful > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claims, then I guess we're done.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fanciful claims?  I said that the Jews dug a tunnel as a conduit for > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> water between Gihon spring and the pool of Siloam..  Why do you think > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is a fanciful claim? > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is not a fanciful claim. You and I both know that I'm referring to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> your supernatural claims. Those would be the ones you're completely > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> unable to support with any evidence.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not made any claims to atheists except that the Jews dug a > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnel to be used as a conduit for water, and the Assyrians built a > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ramp out of dirt to get over the city wall at Lachish.  To an atheist > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> these might seem like supernatural claims because there were actually > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> people working to accomplish both of these tasks instead of just > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> giving orders, criticism, etc., the way atheists do..  Since atheists > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> have been unable to visualize these two events, there is no reason to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> proceed on to anything more complex. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Then we're in total agreement. A tunnel was dug a long time ago and it > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> got mentioned in some ancient writings, providing absolutlely no support > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> for any supernatural claims. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> So why all the posts?- Hide quoted text - > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> You do not seem to be visualizing it very well.  The Assyrians came > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> into Judea with an army of hundreds of thousands on their way home > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> after taking a big chunk of Egypt.  Judea was a little dot in the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> middle of the Assyrian kingdom, which extended from the Caspian Sea to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Egypt.  So why was there still a Kingdom of Judea when King > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Sennacherib got back to his capitol city of Ninevah?  Sennacherib > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> himself says there was on the column he had erected in Ninevah. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Or so the story goes.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > > > >>>>>>>>> What do you mean so the story goes?  The column erected by Sennacherib > > > > > >>>>>>>>> in Ninevah is still there today.  He plainly says on it that Hezekiah > > > > > >>>>>>>>> paid tribute to him, and he was such a nice guy that he just went home > > > > > >>>>>>>>> after he got the money. > > > > > >>>>>>>> Great. Sennacherib went home and left Jerusalem unsacked.. That doesn't > > > > > >>>>>>>> mean that it was due to the angel of the lord slaughtering 185,000 > > > > > >>>>>>>> troops in a night. > > > > > >>>>>>>> Why do you favour the oddly magical Biblical account over Sennacherib's?- Hide quoted text - > > > > > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > > > >>>>>>> 186,000 troops.  Chaldean historians of the same time said that the > > > > > >>>>>>> Assyrian army died of plague while besieging Jerusalem, and > > > > > >>>>>>> Sennacherib fled in great fear back to his own city of Ninevah. > > > > > >>>>>>> Sennacherib made no mention of losing his army on the column he > > > > > >>>>>>> erected.  He seems to have pretended to his fellow Assyrians that the > > > > > >>>>>>> army was still somewhere doing something, but his own two sons > > > > > >>>>>>> murdered him, probably because they were upset about him losing the > > > > > >>>>>>> army. > > > > > >>>>>> So where are God's footprints in all of this? Arguments for both sides > > > > > >>>>>> can be made without invoking magic.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > > > >>>>> Well, from a military standpoint, the Jews had no chance whatsoever > > > > > >>>>> against the Assyrians.  But when it was all over, it was the Assyrian > > > > > >>>>> king who lost everything, including his own life.  So I would say, let > > > > > >>>>> atheists of today explain it their way, and let Christians explain it > > > > > >>>>> their way.  The Jews explained it by saying that an angel of the Lord > > > > > >>>>> killed 186,000 Assyrian troops.  That is a matter of record.  It is > > > > > >>>>> recorded in three different books of the Old Testament. > > > > > >>>> The Old Testament isn't particularly compelling evidence, it suggests > > > > > >>>> that there was a global flood and special creation over the course of > > > > > >>>> six days. It might be a "matter of record" on some things, but it is > > > > > >>>> definitely not on others.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > >>>> - Show quoted text - > > > > > >>> Well, I am sure the Jews feel bad that you do not like the Old > > > > > >>> Testament, but it says what it says.  It says in three different > > > > > >>> books that an angel of the Lord went through the camp of the Assyrians > > > > > >>> and slew 186,000 soldiers. > > > > > >> It also says that the universe was created a handful of thousands of > > > > > >> years ago. The Bible is not reliable.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > Well, as I said before, you atheists believe in relativity of time > > > > > > unless you are talking about the earth.  Then you insist on absolute > > > > > > time. > > > > > > Instead you make some ridiculous claims about the relativity of time > > > > > completely without evidential basis, or... any rational support at all. > > > > > The Earth is older than 6500 thousand years old. Much older. I'll go > > > > > with the many independent lines of verification on that one.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > Well, that is fine, but why is relativity of time something that > > > > exists except when talking about the earth? > > > > Robert B. Winn > > > > It's not.  All time is relative to a frame of reference, but the > > > effects of time dilation are very well understood and calculable. > > > Meaning we can correct for dilation due to the earth's movement, if we > > > wanted partial second accuracy.  To have significant effects on time, > > > like you are inferring, objects need to move at speeds close to the > > > speed of light relative to each other. > > > > Al- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > The planet Mercury was the first thing used as a proof of the theorry > > of relativity, and its velocity is 30 miles per second.  At the > > velocity of the planet Mercury, my own equations agree with the > > Lorentz equations to about six decimal places.The Galilean > > transformation equations with absolute time agree to just one or two. > >     Where the Lorentz equations fall apart is their need for a > > distance contraction, which then causes the moving object to disappear > > at the speed of light. > > Robert B. Winn > > Thus physical objects as we understand them cannot travel at the speed > of light. > Where's the problem? > > Al Well, you forgot about photons, Al. Photons are traveling at the speed of light. Robert B. Winn
From: DuhIdiot on 8 Jul 2008 21:06 "Alex W." <ingilt(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in news:6dfkvqF2c3ttU1(a)mid.individual.net: <snip> > Just came across an interesting argument. The comedian Carrie Snow > once said "If God were a woman, sperm would taste of chocolate". > > Just don't ask me to find out. That's a cool line, but it makes at least as much sense with "woman" replaced by "man". -- No SPAM in my email.
From: rbwinn on 8 Jul 2008 21:09 On Jul 7, 7:17�pm, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: > On Jul 7, 6:37 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > > > > > > > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >news:db983fc6-d541-4907-ba1e-103490e27a51(a)79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com... > > > > It cannot be done. �I talk to scientists in sci.physics.relativity. > > > That is all I am ever going to do. > > > Robert B. Winn > > > I have a sneaking suspicion that they never talk to you. > > Rather like your relationship with God. > > > -- > > Steve O > > a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter) > > B.A.A.W.A. > > Convicted by Earthquack > > Exempt from purgatory by papal indulgence > > Yes, with a high school education, he can't be pursuing scientific > equations deeply. And he wouldn't have time for scientific things > since religious affair would be more important to him. > Of course there would be others asking questions intellectually, > although with high school standards.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I go into greater depth than scientists do. What I did, basically, is to take the equations they threw away, the Galilean transformation equations, and explained relativity of time with those equations. Robert B. Winn
From: Cary Kittrell on 8 Jul 2008 21:07 In article <h70874d1uurc0slj7cd96un0cduge4afbd(a)4ax.com> Stan-O <bndsna807(a)aol.com> writes: > On Tue, 8 Jul 2008 20:37:34 +0000 (UTC), cary(a)afone.as.arizona.edu > (Cary Kittrell) wrote: > > > >> >>>> Steve O > >> >>> At one time when I was making mistakes, about half of the posts in > >> >>> sci.physics.relativity were directed to me. Since I arrived at > >> >>> equations that hold together, scientists do not post to me. > >> >>> Robert B. Winn > >> >> > >> >> It looks to me like you might be in a few killfiles. > >> >> > >> > > >> >A few? > >> > >> Doesn't anyone understand sarcasm? Sheesh! > > > >Um...I think you just blew right by a pretty good > >example there.. > > Now I know how Charlie Brown feels... Heh! -- cary
From: rbwinn on 8 Jul 2008 21:11
On Jul 7, 7:35 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > news:b32c04a0-56aa-474b-a1e5-34a5ee711b06(a)x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > On Jul 7, 3:37�am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >>news:db983fc6-d541-4907-ba1e-103490e27a51(a)79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com.... > > >> > It cannot be done. �I talk to scientists in sci.physics.relativity. > >> > That is all I am ever going to do. > >> > Robert B. Winn > > >> I have a sneaking suspicion that they never talk to you. > >> Rather like your relationship with God. > > >> -- > >> Steve O > > At one time when I was making mistakes, about half of the posts in > > sci.physics.relativity were directed to me.   Since I arrived at > > equations that hold together, scientists do not post to me. > > Robert B. Winn > > Nah, they just gave up and killfiled you, I expect > > -- > Steve O No, I think they just avoid talking to me now that I have the equations figured out. Robert B. Winn |