Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: BuddyThunder on 19 Jun 2008 02:28 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 18, 3:59�pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jun 17, 5:34�pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" >>> Well, Al, we have the ideas of atheists living today , and we have the >>> writings of the apostles. >> I hate to break this to you, but there is not one apostle for which we have >> any writings. �None of the New Testament books (except for the Pauline >> epistles) have any names associated with them. �And in fact the earliest >> manuscripts did not have the names of the biblical books in them. �It is >> apparent that the titles were added by a second or third copier because the >> lettering is not in the hand of the first and oldest scribe. >> >>> Who should I believe? �This is really a >>> tough one. >> It isn't a tough one at all. �Your first statement is false. �So YOU are not >> to believed because you wallow in ignorance. >> >>> Well, I think I will believe the apostles. >> How will you do that? �They wrote nothing. >> >>> Robert B. Winn > Let's see, Matthew was an apostle, John was an apostle, Peter was an > apostle, James was an apostle, Paul was an apostle, then there are > writings of some people who were just disciples. All of these people > seem more believable to me than you do Darrell. Maybe it is just your > attitude. What is your standard for assessment? You often say X "seems more reliable" than Y. You apparently distrust the honest inquiry of subject matter experts, so from that position of ignorance, how do you arrive at the correct alternative?
From: BuddyThunder on 19 Jun 2008 02:33 asilentskeptic wrote: > On Jun 18, 12:14 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >> >> news:c44cff96-90ef-45f4-badc-413fcf95321e(a)m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> >>> On Jun 17, 10:41�am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>> news:f8121cc3-37c1-4561-b7cc-b6292578b7f1(a)34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >>>>> All atheists I talk to indicate to me that if they do not have a >>>>> written record of something, then it did not exist, and if the written >>>>> record is the Bible, then it still did not exist. >>>> Liar. >>>> We have simply told you on many occasions that the magical events which >>>> were >>>> supposed to have taken place in your Bible are uncorroborated by any >>>> other >>>> source. >>>> Meanwhile, all you can do is bleat about ramps and conduits, which offer >>>> no >>>> proof at all that the supposed magical events actually happened, or that >>>> the >>>> main characters depicted in the book actually existed. >>>> You are either incapable of listening, or unwilling to listen. >>>> -- >>> Hey, you atheists thought Harry Potter was going to make the tunnels >>> and ramps disappear. >> We did no such thing. >> You simply offered that as a straw man argument to disguise your weak >> position. >> >> -- >> Steve O >> a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter) >> B.A.A.W.A. >> Convicted by Earthquack >> "I have a miraculous picture of Jesus - if you look really closely at the >> face, you can see a burnt tortilla" > > I was going to keep up a discussion with the guy, but he either > doesn't grasp what you are saying, misinterprets what you said, or > goes off on some completely strange tangent that has no basis (or some > strange mind-warping basis) in what he is replying to. Not worth the > time or the effort. I keep pressing for a coherant position, but really don't feel any closer to getting it than when I made my first post on this thread. :-( It's still an interesting conversation to me. Maybe I'm slightly masochistic?
From: BuddyThunder on 19 Jun 2008 02:42 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 18, 4:45 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >> >> news:21d2e037-7498-4d49-bb95-5a308e107d58(a)j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jun 18, 12:14 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>> news:c44cff96-90ef-45f4-badc-413fcf95321e(a)m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com... >>>>> On Jun 17, 10:41�am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:f8121cc3-37c1-4561-b7cc-b6292578b7f1(a)34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>> All atheists I talk to indicate to me that if they do not have a >>>>>>> written record of something, then it did not exist, and if the >>>>>>> written >>>>>>> record is the Bible, then it still did not exist. >>>>>> Liar. >>>>>> We have simply told you on many occasions that the magical events >>>>>> which >>>>>> were >>>>>> supposed to have taken place in your Bible are uncorroborated by any >>>>>> other >>>>>> source. >>>>>> Meanwhile, all you can do is bleat about ramps and conduits, which >>>>>> offer >>>>>> no >>>>>> proof at all that the supposed magical events actually happened, or >>>>>> that >>>>>> the >>>>>> main characters depicted in the book actually existed. >>>>>> You are either incapable of listening, or unwilling to listen. >>>>>> -- >>>>> Hey, you atheists thought Harry Potter was going to make the tunnels >>>>> and ramps disappear. >>>> We did no such thing. >>>> You simply offered that as a straw man argument to disguise your weak >>>> position. >>> I was not arguing about anything. If you atheists want to believe in >>> Harry Potter, go ahead and believe in him. I just said that there was >>> a tunnel between Gihon spring and the Pool of Siloam, exactly the way >>> three books of the Old Testament say there is, and there is an earthen >>> ramp over the city wall at the ruins of Lachish. You want to be cute >>> about it, so go ahead and be cute. >>> Robert B. Winn >> Now explain why the existence of this tunnel and ramp and the fact that they >> are mentioned in the bible is evidence that the rest of the magic story is >> real. > > So what you would have me believe is that there are only two things > mentioned in the Bible that are real, an earthen ramp and a conduit > for water. I think that there are other things mentioned in the Bible > that are real. I'm sure there are other things that are true in the Bible, but they require independent verification before we'll know. As you well know, London exists just as decribed in Harry Potter, but that's no reason to accept flying broomsticks. Flying broomsticks would require independent evidence. We don't have any. So there's no compelling reason to believe in it. Jerusalem exists, just as described in the Bible, but that's no reason to accept a six-literal-day creation. A six day creation would require independent evidence. We don't have any. We have overwhelming evidence for an old earth. So there's no compelling reason to believe in a young earth.
From: BuddyThunder on 19 Jun 2008 02:45 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 18, 12:13�pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >> >> news:87b0e53d-5a57-49b1-b3d0-a331560793fb(a)c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jun 17, 10:37 am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>> news:d6db0a86-413e-4057-a2cf-40363e9b8a34(a)a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... >>>>> Well some people might not be convinced by your video footage. There >>>>> are many people who believe that the Apollo moon landings were faked. >>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>> It's not my fault if other people have mental health problems or are >>>> gullible enough to swallow any wild- assed claim they come across. >>>> Anyway, if my video footage is insufficient evidence, what makes your >>>> 2,000 >>>> year old book o' blood and that silly Mormon bible more convincing? >>> Well, you atheists did not do very well with regard to the Assyrian >>> invasion of Judea. >> I can assure you we had absolutely nothing to do with it. >> >>> The Bible seems to have its facts a lot straighter >>> than you atheists do. >> There are very few facts in the bible at all. >> It is a magic story based around real (and sometimes non- existent ) >> locations. >> >>> Was there some other specific thing that you >>> atheists wanted to discuss? >> How about your inability to differentiate fantasy from reality? >> >> > I think I do fairly well. Hezekiah's tunnel is real. The earthen > ramp over the city wall at Lachish is real. Harry Potter is not real. Ah, but London is! Is the Bible? It may be, we haven't refuted anything yet. But your logic is not supportive of your claims.
From: BuddyThunder on 19 Jun 2008 02:58
Brian E. Clark wrote: > In article <cc3614a0-e50d-4a79-9922- > 1e5bc14371bd(a)d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, rbwinn > said... > >> On Jun 15, 9:59� pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" >> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: >>> On Jun 15, 12:30 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Jun 12, 10:00�=3Fpm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" >>>> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: >>>>> On Jun 13, 1:51 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: >>>>>> On Jun 11, 4:51 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" >>>>>>>> Well, as I said before, trying to convince atheists that Harry Potter >>>>>>>> is not a real person seems to me to be impossible. �=3FI think we need to >>>>>>>> just let you believe what you choose to believe. >>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>> You seem to have completely missed the point again. �=3FAre you really >>>>>>> that retarded? >>>>>> We could talk about Hezekiah's tunnel again. �=3FDo you want to talk >>>>>> about Hezekiah's tunnel? >>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>> Mr Winn, you are as retarded as they come. �=3FIf you think you are being >>>>> funny and clever, you are sadly mistaken. �=3FI fail to see how the >>>>> existence or non-existence of Hezekiah's tunnel proves a damn thing >>>>> except for the existence of a tunnel. �=3FYou seem to take a tunnel's >>>>> existence as proof of magical sky fairies with a bit of a mean streak >>>>> and a bad temper. >>>>> Al >>>> Well, Al, atheists were telling me that there is nothing in existence >>>> that could be shown today that proves anything in the Bible to be >>>> true. >>> No they did not. >>> >>>> So I just mentioned Hezekiah's tunnel, which the Old Testament >>>> in three different books describes as being built to divert the water >>>> from Gihon spring inside the city of Jerusalem during the Assyrian >>>> invasion of Judea. � So, as I take your response, you are joining the >>>> other atheists in saying that the existence of Hezekiah's tunnel is >>>> more a proof that Harry Potter departed from the railroad station in >>>> London than that the Jews diverted water from Gihon spring to the pool >>>> of Siloam during the Assyrian invasion of Judea. >>> Misrepresentation, either deliberate or incredibly retarded >>> interpretation of what has been said. >>> >>>> Well, different groups of people have different beliefs, Al. � I do not >>>> think we should allow ourselves to become contentious over whether >>>> Hezekiah's tunnel exists or whether Harry Potter left from the >>>> railroad station on a train. � I do not believe that Harry Potter left >>>> from the railroad station on a train, but if atheists want to believe >>>> that, I see no reason why they should not be allowed to do so. >>>> Robert B. Winn >>> Your complete disregard for what people actually say marks you as a >>> retard or a bot. >>> >>> Al- Hide quoted text - >> Well I have noticed that other atheists get upset when I make fun of >> their "logic". > > Of course. It's like Vanilla Ice making fun of Sam > Cooke. Hey Vanilla Ice is divine. I mean really divine. In John Safran vs God they found compelling predictions of sept. 11 in the collected lyrics of Vanilla Ice by applying the Bible Code algorithms. I considered converting to gansta rap for a while. Then realised that Ice was... well, sh*t. |