Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
|
From: BuddyThunder on 19 Jun 2008 03:02 rbwinn wrote: <snip> >>>>>> Says the believer in a magic sky fairy that magically inseminated a virgin >>>>>> so that she could magically remain a virgin and magically produce his magic >>>>>> son who went on to do magic tricks, like magically turning water into wine, >>>>>> magically walking on water and and magically feeding 5000 people with the >>>>>> scantest of supplies. This magic son, although supposedly dead, magically >>>>>> came back to life and then magically disappeared. All evidence, outside of >>>>>> the of the only book supposedly describing these magical happenings, >>>>>> magically disappeared. This believer apparently also believes that a magic >>>>>> angel magically came to earth with a magic set of golden disks and gave them >>>>>> to a well known fraudster to magically translate into English and then, >>>>>> magically, the disks disappeared. This believer also talks to the magic sky >>>>>> beings to magically get them to work their magic in his favour. Does he also >>>>>> wear magic underwear...curious minds and all that. >>>>>> And I haven't even started on the OT, yet. >>>>>> Smiler, >>>>>> The godless one >>>>>> a.a.# 2279- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> You haven't started on anything. >>>> This is a scant rebuttal. How is he wrong?- Hide quoted text - >>> I did not spend any great amount of time studying his statement. As >>> far as I could tell there was nothing true in it. >> This seems to read like "I don't like it, so I won't accept/believe it". >> >> What specifically rings false about it? I'd like to know how you assess >> statements for truth.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > The entire thing was false as far as I could tell. What was there in > it that you thought was true? Your religion believes that Jesus was born of a virgin? Jesus reportedly turned water into wine.... There are no known natural mechanisms by which these things could happen, hence the characterisation as magic. Should I go on? You haven't been able to tell me how you assay for truth, maybe you don't know yourself? There's no shame in that, a lot of people don't think about these things.
From: BuddyThunder on 19 Jun 2008 03:02 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 18, 5:11�pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >> >> news:11f01f12-6b83-46c8-8c82-cf8e71cdb53e(a)w4g2000prd.googlegroups.com... >> On Jun 18, 12:04 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> rbwinn wrote: >>>> On Jun 17, 12:17 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>> On Jun 16, 4:50?pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: >>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:2709c51e-e0df-48bc-9796-1c51dad9600d(a)d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>> On Jun 16, 1:36 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jun 16, 1:19?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Smiler wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> "BuddyThunder" <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>> news:4854e421$1(a)clear.net.nz... >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 14, 4:20 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 13, 7:04 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 12, 7:30?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:21:20 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 11, 6:46?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 05:58:19 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 10, 5:20?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:34:40 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 10, 12:40?am, BuddyThunder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want us to believe some of the history of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> places, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coming. If you want us to believe in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extraordinary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supernatural >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claims, you're going to have to bring something >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new.- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, with regard to the Assyrian invasion of Judea, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> book >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isaiah claims that a supernatural event took place. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Isaiah >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> says that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> during the night an angel of the Lord went into the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> camp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assyrians and slew 186,000 soldiers in one night. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Besorus, a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chaldean >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> historian, says that the Assyrian army died of plague >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> besieging >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jerusalem. ?Of course, the Chaldeans were idol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worshippers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assyrians. ?Still, this event was of some interest to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Babylonians were planning a conquest of Assyria. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is a fact, however, that Sennacherib abandoned the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seige of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jerusalem and fled back to Ninevah. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know enough about the history of the time to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened, but I am sure that historians do. If there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disastrous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> series of deaths, various diseases are a much more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angel of the Lord. No evidence backs up that claim.- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quoted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I would have to go with the angel of the Lord. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chaldean >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> historians were quite a ways from the actual event. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, you ignored the Wikipedia entry. Your dishonesty is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noted.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Bible account is much better than the Wickipedia one. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> atheists on the staff of Wickipedia. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have no idea how Wikipedia works. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Bible account is not consistent with the evidence.- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quoted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Biblical account is obviously true, and the Wickipedia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based on Sennacherib's story of what happened in the war >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jews. ?Sennacherib's account is obviously the fabricated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What makes that "obvious" to you, exactly?- Hide quoted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sennacherib's account is like listening to an atheist. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you mean that it sounds non-hysterical and plausible?- Hide >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quoted >>>>>>>>>>>>>> text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>> No, it sounds hysterical and irrational. >>>>>>>>>>>> What, specifically, strikes you that way? >>>>>>>>>>> It's not like the voices in his head. >>>>>>>>>> Crazy huh? I have not received an answer to this yet, I'm not >>>>>>>>>> expecting >>>>>>>>>> one.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>> Atheists always sound hysterical and irrational to me. >>>>>>>> Why? Could you provide an example? Do I sound hysterical?- Hide >>>>>>>> quoted >>>>>>>> text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> Well, yes. ? Harry Potter, Harry Potter, Harry Potter. ?You seem to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> crying out for magic to save you. >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> Says the believer in a magic sky fairy that magically inseminated a >>>>>>> virgin >>>>>>> so that she could magically remain a virgin and magically produce his >>>>>>> magic >>>>>>> son who went on to do magic tricks, like magically turning water into >>>>>>> wine, >>>>>>> magically walking on water and and magically feeding 5000 people with >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> scantest of supplies. This magic son, although supposedly dead, >>>>>>> magically >>>>>>> came back to life and then magically disappeared. All evidence, >>>>>>> outside of >>>>>>> the of the only book supposedly describing these magical happenings, >>>>>>> magically disappeared. This believer apparently also believes that a >>>>>>> magic >>>>>>> angel magically came to earth with a magic set of golden disks and >>>>>>> gave them >>>>>>> to a well known fraudster to magically translate into English and >>>>>>> then, >>>>>>> magically, the disks disappeared. This believer also talks to the >>>>>>> magic sky >>>>>>> beings to magically get them to work their magic in his favour. Does >>>>>>> he also >>>>>>> wear magic underwear...curious minds and all that. >>>>>>> And I haven't even started on the OT, yet. >>>>>>> Smiler, >>>>>>> The godless one >>>>>>> a.a.# 2279- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>> You haven't started on anything. >>>>> This is a scant rebuttal. How is he wrong?- Hide quoted text - >>>> I did not spend any great amount of time studying his statement. As >>>> far as I could tell there was nothing true in it. >>> This seems to read like "I don't like it, so I won't accept/believe it". >>> What specifically rings false about it? I'd like to know how you assess >>> statements for truth.- Hide quoted text - >>> - Show quoted text - >> The entire thing was false as far as I could tell. �What was there in >> it that you thought was true? >> -------------------------------------------- >> The burden of proof is on the accuser! >> You asserted it was untrue....You prove it. >> Otherwise it stands as true. >> >> Smiler, > Well, you need to file the case in court, Smiler. These things are > not just automatic. They are if you want to be believed. Maybe that's not your motivation though. <shrug>
From: BuddyThunder on 19 Jun 2008 03:06 rbwinn wrote: <snip> > Well, what you are saying is that the Biblical account of the Assyrian > invasion of Judea is fiction. What part of it do you claim is > fiction? So far we have discussed the earthen ramp and Hezekiah's > tunnel. Are you still claiming that those are fiction? You're still claiming London doesn't exist, huh? I don't know either account, so really don't have an opinion. Have you considered that maybe neither account is accurate? If pressed, I would go with the explanation with the best evidential support. I don't have a reason to decide at this point. Happy to be agnostic on something!
From: BuddyThunder on 19 Jun 2008 03:08 rbwinn wrote: <snip> >>> Well, with regard to what I was discussing the Biblical account of the >>> Assyrian invasion of Judea, I say that the Biblical account is the >>> most accurate one in existence. Atheists always claim that >>> Sennacherib's pillar in Ninevah is the most accurate account. I say >>> Sennacherib was obviously lying. >> You say all this on the basis of absolutely no evidence. > > OK, so once again you are saying that the earthen ramp and Hezekiah's > tunnel do not exist because there is no evidence of the Assyrian > invasion of Judea. Well, what about the pillar in Ninevah with > Sennacherib's account? Are you saying that does not exist also? And once again, you deny the existence of London. Would you suggest that York and Liverpool are similar fabrications?
From: BuddyThunder on 19 Jun 2008 03:11
Free Lunch wrote: > On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:29:16 -0700 (PDT), "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA > Al)" <alwhipp(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> On Jun 19, 8:19 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: >>> On Jun 18, 12:10 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > ... > >>>> You say all this on the basis of absolutely no evidence. >>> OK, so once again you are saying that the earthen ramp and Hezekiah's >>> tunnel do not exist because there is no evidence of the Assyrian >>> invasion of Judea. Well, what about the pillar in Ninevah with >>> Sennacherib's account? Are you saying that does not exist also? >>> Robert B. Winn >> Do you ever stay on topic? Have you finished accusing people of >> saying things they didn't? > > Isn't it amazing how completely dishonest he is in his reading of what > others say? I think it's a mental sleight-of-hand to avoid having to confront some scary questions. And yes, I think it is amazing, but I remember having to do the same when I was losing my faith. |