Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 20 Jul 2008 01:48 On Jul 19, 10:11�pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >news:9445436b-52c9-44e7-8b37-1a8008c43c98(a)25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com... > > On Jul 18, 5:32 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 17, 6:47 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jul 17, 5:42 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jul 17, 4:11 am, The Loan Arranger <no...(a)nowhere.invalid> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Jul 15, 6:39?am, The Loan Arranger <no...(a)nowhere.invalid> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 14, 10:38 pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> So are you admitting that you have sins? ?This would be a > >>>>>>>>>>>>> first for an > >>>>>>>>>>>>> atheist. ?All other atheists tell me that they do not have > >>>>>>>>>>>>> sins > >>>>>>>>>>>>> because whatever they do is not sin. > >>>>>>>>>>>> I have what YOU call sins. They aren't, because the concept is > >>>>>>>>>>>> meaningless. In absolute terms. > >>>>>>>>>>> Right. ?Atheist Josef Stalin said the same thing when he killed > >>>>>>>>>>> 12 > >>>>>>>>>>> million people. > >>>>>>>>>> As opposed to Adolf Hitler ("I am now as before a Catholic and > >>>>>>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>>> always remain so." - quoted in John Towland's biog). > >>>>>>>>>> Not to mention several Popes, who were happy to ordain the > >>>>>>>>>> indiscriminate massacres of Moslems in the name of the Cross. > >>>>>>>>>> Not to mention the Christian fundamentalist GWB (and his father), > >>>>>>>>>> who > >>>>>>>>>> seems happy to go to war against the people of any Moslem country > >>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>> has the audacity not to kow-tow to his government's wishes. > >>>>>>>>>> There is no point in claiming that atheism breeds immorality, or > >>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>> Christianity is the cure, because there are so many > >>>>>>>>>> counter-examples in > >>>>>>>>>> both cases that the only conclusion any sensible person can draw > >>>>>>>>>> is that > >>>>>>>>>> some people are good, some people are bad, and anyone can be > >>>>>>>>>> drawn to or > >>>>>>>>>> away from religion. > >>>>>>>>>> TLA > >>>>>>>>> So was this John Towland an atheist? > >>>>>>>> I have no idea, and it's not relevant anyway. He just wrote a biog > >>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>> Hitler. > >>>>>>>>> Anyway, Hitler was a politician saying what would make him popular > >>>>>>>>> with the German people. His actions in his life show that he did > >>>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>> believe he would be punished for sins, much like atheists of > >>>>>>>>> today. > >>>>>>>> ...and any psychopath with temporal lobe epilepsy or schizophrenia > >>>>>>>> who > >>>>>>>> believes that massacring groups or whole races is OK, because > >>>>>>>> they've > >>>>>>>> God on their side. However, the point that you're trying to dodge, > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>> failing, is that as much evil is done in the name of religion, in > >>>>>>>> this > >>>>>>>> case Christian religion, as is done by those with none - probably > >>>>>>>> more. > >>>>>>>> If you don't find that an uncomfortable truth, you need to > >>>>>>>> recalibrate > >>>>>>>> your humanity. > >>>>>>>> TLA- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>> Well, I don't really see much evidence of it. Stalin and Pol Pot > >>>>>>> were > >>>>>>> both atheists. > >>>>>> They were also both men. So what? > >>>>>>> But politicians who killed large numbers of people > >>>>>>> cannot compare with the numbers of people killed by abortion, which > >>>>>>> was done by governments controlled by atheistic political factions. > >>>>>> Number of abortions in United States since George W. Bush's > >>>>>> inauguration: Approximately 9 million > >>>>>> George W. Bush's religious affiliation: Christian > >>>>>> What were you saying again? > >>>>>> -- > >>>>> George W. Bush is completely irrelevant, as the next President of the > >>>>> United States will be. All major decisions are made by the atheistic > >>>>> Supreme Court, which at the present time holds the position of > >>>>> Judicial dictatorship in the United States. > >>>> Religious affiliations of Supreme Court Justices: > >>>> Roberts: Roman Catholic > >>>> Stevens: Protestant > >>>> Scalia: Roman Catholic > >>>> Kennedy: Roman Catholic > >>>> Souter: Episcopalian > >>>> Thomas: Roman Catholic > >>>> Breyer: Jewish > >>>> Alito: Roman Catholic > >>>> Ginsburg: Jewish > >>>> The Supreme Court follows the Constitution of the United States of > >>>> America, the federal law of the land. > >>>> What were you saying again? > >>>> -- > >>> During my lifetime the Supreme Court has not made even one decision > >>> that did not promote atheism. It does not matter if they all claim to > >>> be religious. Actions speak louder than words. > >> Perhaps you can name me one decision that "promoted atheism". > > <piggybacking here to respond to Winn> > > > Roe v. Wade > > BZZT! �Roe v. Wade did not promote atheism. �Try again. > Roe v. Wade accomplished one of the primary goals of atheism, which was to establish European control over the government of the United States. During the existence of the Soviet Union, the average woman under that government had five abortions in her lifetime. Once western Europe was also under the same form of government, the goal of atheists was to put the United States under their power, which was accomplished by a Supreme Court decision, Roe v. Wade. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 20 Jul 2008 01:50 On Jul 19, 10:12 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 18, 5:46�pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >>news:de6a2c3f-ab55-434c-aa04-d37ddd084d82(a)26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com.... > >> On Jul 17, 1:08 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>> On Jul 17, 4:11 am, The Loan Arranger <no...(a)nowhere.invalid> wrote: > >>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>> On Jul 15, 6:39?am, The Loan Arranger <no...(a)nowhere.invalid> wrote: > >>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Jul 14, 10:38 pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> So are you admitting that you have sins? ?This would be a first > >>>>>>>>>> for an > >>>>>>>>>> atheist. ?All other atheists tell me that they do not have sins > >>>>>>>>>> because whatever they do is not sin. > >>>>>>>>> I have what YOU call sins. They aren't, because the concept is > >>>>>>>>> meaningless. In absolute terms. > >>>>>>>> Right. ?Atheist Josef Stalin said the same thing when he killed 12 > >>>>>>>> million people. > >>>>>>> As opposed to Adolf Hitler ("I am now as before a Catholic and will > >>>>>>> always remain so." - quoted in John Towland's biog). > >>>>>>> Not to mention several Popes, who were happy to ordain the > >>>>>>> indiscriminate massacres of Moslems in the name of the Cross. > >>>>>>> Not to mention the Christian fundamentalist GWB (and his father), who > >>>>>>> seems happy to go to war against the people of any Moslem country > >>>>>>> that > >>>>>>> has the audacity not to kow-tow to his government's wishes. > >>>>>>> There is no point in claiming that atheism breeds immorality, or that > >>>>>>> Christianity is the cure, because there are so many counter-examples > >>>>>>> in > >>>>>>> both cases that the only conclusion any sensible person can draw is > >>>>>>> that > >>>>>>> some people are good, some people are bad, and anyone can be drawn to > >>>>>>> or > >>>>>>> away from religion. > >>>>>>> TLA > >>>>>> So was this John Towland an atheist? > >>>>> I have no idea, and it's not relevant anyway. He just wrote a biog of > >>>>> Hitler. > >>>>>> Anyway, Hitler was a politician saying what would make him popular > >>>>>> with the German people. His actions in his life show that he did not > >>>>>> believe he would be punished for sins, much like atheists of today.. > >>>>> ...and any psychopath with temporal lobe epilepsy or schizophrenia who > >>>>> believes that massacring groups or whole races is OK, because they've > >>>>> God on their side. However, the point that you're trying to dodge, and > >>>>> failing, is that as much evil is done in the name of religion, in this > >>>>> case Christian religion, as is done by those with none - probably more. > >>>>> If you don't find that an uncomfortable truth, you need to recalibrate > >>>>> your humanity. > >>>>> TLA- Hide quoted text - > >>>> Well, I don't really see much evidence of it. Stalin and Pol Pot were > >>>> both atheists. But politicians who killed large numbers of people > >>>> cannot compare with the numbers of people killed by abortion, which > >>>> was done by governments controlled by atheistic political factions. > >>> Your vitriol against atheists is kinda cute in a psycho sort of way. > >>> Where do I sign up for the genocides? I need to do my atheistic duty. Is > >>> it the same place Mormons get their brains removed?- Hide quoted text - > >>> - Show quoted text - > >> All you have to do is vote for your pro-abortion politicians. > >> ========================================== > >> There aren't any pro-abortion politicians. > > >> Smiler, > >> The godless one > >> a.a.# 2279- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > There aren't?  > > No. > > > What happened to them? > > Nothing.  They just don't exist. > Sort of like Hezekiah's tunnel? Robert B. Winn
From: DanielSan on 20 Jul 2008 01:53 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 19, 10:11�pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>> news:9445436b-52c9-44e7-8b37-1a8008c43c98(a)25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com... >>> On Jul 18, 5:32 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jul 17, 6:47 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jul 17, 5:42 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jul 17, 4:11 am, The Loan Arranger <no...(a)nowhere.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 15, 6:39?am, The Loan Arranger <no...(a)nowhere.invalid> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 14, 10:38 pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So are you admitting that you have sins? ?This would be a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first for an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> atheist. ?All other atheists tell me that they do not have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sins >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because whatever they do is not sin. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have what YOU call sins. They aren't, because the concept is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaningless. In absolute terms. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Right. ?Atheist Josef Stalin said the same thing when he killed >>>>>>>>>>>>> 12 >>>>>>>>>>>>> million people. >>>>>>>>>>>> As opposed to Adolf Hitler ("I am now as before a Catholic and >>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>> always remain so." - quoted in John Towland's biog). >>>>>>>>>>>> Not to mention several Popes, who were happy to ordain the >>>>>>>>>>>> indiscriminate massacres of Moslems in the name of the Cross. >>>>>>>>>>>> Not to mention the Christian fundamentalist GWB (and his father), >>>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>>> seems happy to go to war against the people of any Moslem country >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> has the audacity not to kow-tow to his government's wishes. >>>>>>>>>>>> There is no point in claiming that atheism breeds immorality, or >>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity is the cure, because there are so many >>>>>>>>>>>> counter-examples in >>>>>>>>>>>> both cases that the only conclusion any sensible person can draw >>>>>>>>>>>> is that >>>>>>>>>>>> some people are good, some people are bad, and anyone can be >>>>>>>>>>>> drawn to or >>>>>>>>>>>> away from religion. >>>>>>>>>>>> TLA >>>>>>>>>>> So was this John Towland an atheist? >>>>>>>>>> I have no idea, and it's not relevant anyway. He just wrote a biog >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> Hitler. >>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, Hitler was a politician saying what would make him popular >>>>>>>>>>> with the German people. His actions in his life show that he did >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> believe he would be punished for sins, much like atheists of >>>>>>>>>>> today. >>>>>>>>>> ...and any psychopath with temporal lobe epilepsy or schizophrenia >>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>> believes that massacring groups or whole races is OK, because >>>>>>>>>> they've >>>>>>>>>> God on their side. However, the point that you're trying to dodge, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> failing, is that as much evil is done in the name of religion, in >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> case Christian religion, as is done by those with none - probably >>>>>>>>>> more. >>>>>>>>>> If you don't find that an uncomfortable truth, you need to >>>>>>>>>> recalibrate >>>>>>>>>> your humanity. >>>>>>>>>> TLA- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>> Well, I don't really see much evidence of it. Stalin and Pol Pot >>>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>>> both atheists. >>>>>>>> They were also both men. So what? >>>>>>>>> But politicians who killed large numbers of people >>>>>>>>> cannot compare with the numbers of people killed by abortion, which >>>>>>>>> was done by governments controlled by atheistic political factions. >>>>>>>> Number of abortions in United States since George W. Bush's >>>>>>>> inauguration: Approximately 9 million >>>>>>>> George W. Bush's religious affiliation: Christian >>>>>>>> What were you saying again? >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> George W. Bush is completely irrelevant, as the next President of the >>>>>>> United States will be. All major decisions are made by the atheistic >>>>>>> Supreme Court, which at the present time holds the position of >>>>>>> Judicial dictatorship in the United States. >>>>>> Religious affiliations of Supreme Court Justices: >>>>>> Roberts: Roman Catholic >>>>>> Stevens: Protestant >>>>>> Scalia: Roman Catholic >>>>>> Kennedy: Roman Catholic >>>>>> Souter: Episcopalian >>>>>> Thomas: Roman Catholic >>>>>> Breyer: Jewish >>>>>> Alito: Roman Catholic >>>>>> Ginsburg: Jewish >>>>>> The Supreme Court follows the Constitution of the United States of >>>>>> America, the federal law of the land. >>>>>> What were you saying again? >>>>>> -- >>>>> During my lifetime the Supreme Court has not made even one decision >>>>> that did not promote atheism. It does not matter if they all claim to >>>>> be religious. Actions speak louder than words. >>>> Perhaps you can name me one decision that "promoted atheism". >> <piggybacking here to respond to Winn> >> >>> Roe v. Wade >> BZZT! �Roe v. Wade did not promote atheism. �Try again. >> > Roe v. Wade accomplished one of the primary goals of atheism, BZZT! There are no goals of atheism. Try again. -- ****************************************************** * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * *----------------------------------------------------* * "I distrust those people who know so well what God * * wants them to do because I notice it always * * coincides with their own desires." * * --Susan B. Anthony * ******************************************************
From: DanielSan on 20 Jul 2008 01:54 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 19, 10:12 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 18, 5:46�pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>> news:de6a2c3f-ab55-434c-aa04-d37ddd084d82(a)26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com... >>>> On Jul 17, 1:08 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>> On Jul 17, 4:11 am, The Loan Arranger <no...(a)nowhere.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>> On Jul 15, 6:39?am, The Loan Arranger <no...(a)nowhere.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Jul 14, 10:38 pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> So are you admitting that you have sins? ?This would be a first >>>>>>>>>>>> for an >>>>>>>>>>>> atheist. ?All other atheists tell me that they do not have sins >>>>>>>>>>>> because whatever they do is not sin. >>>>>>>>>>> I have what YOU call sins. They aren't, because the concept is >>>>>>>>>>> meaningless. In absolute terms. >>>>>>>>>> Right. ?Atheist Josef Stalin said the same thing when he killed 12 >>>>>>>>>> million people. >>>>>>>>> As opposed to Adolf Hitler ("I am now as before a Catholic and will >>>>>>>>> always remain so." - quoted in John Towland's biog). >>>>>>>>> Not to mention several Popes, who were happy to ordain the >>>>>>>>> indiscriminate massacres of Moslems in the name of the Cross. >>>>>>>>> Not to mention the Christian fundamentalist GWB (and his father), who >>>>>>>>> seems happy to go to war against the people of any Moslem country >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> has the audacity not to kow-tow to his government's wishes. >>>>>>>>> There is no point in claiming that atheism breeds immorality, or that >>>>>>>>> Christianity is the cure, because there are so many counter-examples >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> both cases that the only conclusion any sensible person can draw is >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> some people are good, some people are bad, and anyone can be drawn to >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> away from religion. >>>>>>>>> TLA >>>>>>>> So was this John Towland an atheist? >>>>>>> I have no idea, and it's not relevant anyway. He just wrote a biog of >>>>>>> Hitler. >>>>>>>> Anyway, Hitler was a politician saying what would make him popular >>>>>>>> with the German people. His actions in his life show that he did not >>>>>>>> believe he would be punished for sins, much like atheists of today. >>>>>>> ...and any psychopath with temporal lobe epilepsy or schizophrenia who >>>>>>> believes that massacring groups or whole races is OK, because they've >>>>>>> God on their side. However, the point that you're trying to dodge, and >>>>>>> failing, is that as much evil is done in the name of religion, in this >>>>>>> case Christian religion, as is done by those with none - probably more. >>>>>>> If you don't find that an uncomfortable truth, you need to recalibrate >>>>>>> your humanity. >>>>>>> TLA- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> Well, I don't really see much evidence of it. Stalin and Pol Pot were >>>>>> both atheists. But politicians who killed large numbers of people >>>>>> cannot compare with the numbers of people killed by abortion, which >>>>>> was done by governments controlled by atheistic political factions. >>>>> Your vitriol against atheists is kinda cute in a psycho sort of way. >>>>> Where do I sign up for the genocides? I need to do my atheistic duty. Is >>>>> it the same place Mormons get their brains removed?- Hide quoted text - >>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>> All you have to do is vote for your pro-abortion politicians. >>>> ========================================== >>>> There aren't any pro-abortion politicians. >>>> Smiler, >>>> The godless one >>>> a.a.# 2279- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> There aren't? >> No. >> >>> What happened to them? >> Nothing. They just don't exist. >> > Sort of like Hezekiah's tunnel? No. -- ****************************************************** * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * *----------------------------------------------------* * "I distrust those people who know so well what God * * wants them to do because I notice it always * * coincides with their own desires." * * --Susan B. Anthony * ******************************************************
From: BuddyThunder on 20 Jul 2008 06:19
rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 18, 12:29�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> Smiler wrote: >>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>> news:ad020ec9-a457-4dae-818d-182301ce08ba(a)m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... >>> On Jul 16, 12:01 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jul 14, 11:29 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jul 14, 8:01?am, The Loan Arranger <no...(a)nowhere.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> Only an atheist would want all choices made for >>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>> Now there was me thinking that that was the mark of a worshipper. It >>>>>>>> seems to me that atheists make their own choices, because they don't >>>>>>>> have decisions ready-dictated to them. >>>>>>> So you think it is a mistake to decide ahead of time not to commit >>>>>>> murder, not to steal, to attend church, not to commit adultery, etc. >>>>>> Why would you be so morally deficient so as to need to perform morning >>>>>> affirmations in order not to kill people? >>>>>> My moral decisions are made as the occasion demands it. Seems to work >>>>>> okay. >>>>> So are you saying that for each person you encounter, you make a >>>>> decision to kill or not to kill? >>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>> No, I'm saying exactly the opposite. I need not make that decision at >>>> all, because I'm not filled with murderous rage. >>>> As moral decisions need to be made, I make them according to my own >>>> values.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> So you would only decide to kill someone if you were filled with >>> murderous rage. �A lot of serial killers seem to be the same way. >>> ==================================== >>> Most of whom are 'beleivers' in one god or another. >> We've got one on trial over here at the moment. He shot a guy, then >> tried to decapitate two women with a katana. Apparently God told him to >> do it. Hopefully the jury disagrees.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Almost every murderer today says that because they know the atheistic > court system will reward them for saying it. His delusions aren't that different from many religious people's. Maybe he was just a bit twitchier than your average Christian? |