Prev: NEWS: Security shortcomings in WPA2 that threaten security of wireless networks
Next: NEWS: Security shortcomings in WPA2 that threaten security ofwireless networks
From: Dennis Ferguson on 10 Aug 2010 13:20
On 2010-08-08, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl(a)cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 07:37:32 -0700, John Navas
><spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote:
>>>Maybe. I suggest you consider brand loyalty. I don't mean Apple iOS
>>>versus Android brand loyalty. I mean AT&T versus Verizon. It's been
>>>demonstrated that there's little loyalty to AT&T and that a large
>>>chunk of iPhone users would move to Verizon if they offered an Verizon
>>>iPhone. ...
>
>>Just as a large chunk of Verizon users have apparently moved to AT&T to
>>become iPhone users. The net would be anyone's guess.
>
> What, me guess(tm)?
>
> Well, let's see what I can excavate:
><http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-20011540-260.html>
> Verizon adds 665,000 new customers in the second quarter. AT&T added
> 496,000.

Ah, one should treat numbers which appear in the press but
aren't reported to the SEC by the company with considerable
suspicion. In particular the number 665,000 doesn't appear
anywhere in Verizon's 10-Q covering CYQ2, and while 496,000 does
appear in AT&T's 10-Q it isn't "new customers in the second quarter",
just a subset.

Here are the numbers which are reported in Verizon's 10-Q, along
with comparable AT&T numbers:

Verizon/AT&T
Total Adds Retail Adds Reseller Adds
Verizon 1,351,000 454,000 897,000
AT&T 1,562,000 1,692,000 -130,000

AT&T breaks down their Retail Additions further, into postpaid
voice lines of service, AT&T-branded prepaid service and
"Connected Device Customers", which I believe includes things
like alarm modems along with iPads. Those numbers are 496,000,
300,000 and 896,000, respectively. Verizon gives the SEC no
similar breakout.

So the article above has picked AT&T's quarterly additions
number for just one category of customer and compared it to
a Verizon number that came from God knows where (though I'd
believe it is retail postpaid additions; the reason that number
is bigger than the 454,000 is that the current success of
Verizon's resellers is coming at least in part at the expense
of Verizon's own retail prepaid service, which is shrinking).

><http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/11152.html>
> Verizon is currently at 81.5 million postpaid customers, AT&T at 67.0
> million postpaid. No way to declare or predict a winner quite yet as
> the first quarter numbers do not include Droid-X and most iPhone 4
> sales.

Another set of numbers not reported to the SEC; their 10-Q's put Verizon
at 92,063,000 and AT&T at 90,130,000. They explain where the additional
1.5 million AT&T customers came from, but not the 7.7 million extra
Verizon customers.

Dennis Ferguson
From: ed on 10 Aug 2010 13:21
On Aug 10, 9:32 am, ZnU <z...(a)fake.invalid> wrote:
>  ed <n...(a)atwistedweb.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 10, 2:29 am, Sandman <m...(a)sandman.net> wrote:
> > > On 2010-08-10 08:28:06 +0200, ZnU said:
> > > > I also have a 3G iPad and haven't activated service yet; when I'm in my
> > > > usual routine, I have WiFi 99% of the time I'd want Internet access on
> > > > the iPad. But if I'm going out of town or I'm on-set for a couple of
> > > > weeks (we do video production work), _then_ it becomes really useful.
> > > > That's why the fact that the plans are month-to-month is so nice.
>
> > > I just think your (as in, all you americans, not you specifically)
> > > cellular plans are fucked up. I pay $80/month (VAT included) for
> > > flatrate data and flatrate calls for my plan and twin card that share
> > > the same flatrate data plan is included in the price, and I just went
> > > to my providers home page and clicked "order micro-sim" and it was
> > > posted to me free of charge as my twin card.
>
> > unlimited (voice, data, txt) plans in the u.s. currently start in the
> > $45-$50 range.
>
> MetroPCS has plans in that range, but 1) they only have coverage in
> major cities and 2) they're on CDMA, which limits device choice.

boost, cricket, and virgin were the ones i was thinking, but yeah,
metro as well (and they bring it down to as low as $40). and sure,
your devices are somewhat limited, but that'd be the case if they were
gsm too, so i'm not sure what the specific complaint is- it's like
saying being on sprint or verizon (or att or tmobile) limits device
choices, right? it's a case of, 'yeah, but?'

> > on att, the ipad data plans were $30 unlimited when they existed ($25
> > for 2 gigs now); no shared extra-card plans, but unlimited data plans
> > on other carriers start at about $40 (though i don't think anyone
> > else has a micro sim at this point).  so you're not really talking
> > about a whole lot of difference in cost when it comes to the actual
> > plans themselves.
>
> Except that an AT&T smartphone plan with 2 GB of data and unlimited
> talk/text is going to be on the order of $115.

um, ok. that doesn't mean you can't get less expensive service. we
know att (and verizon) are expensive. point is, it CAN be comparable
(maybe even cheaper- can sandman get a 1 device unlimited plan in the
$40-$50 range?).

> And I bet Sandman's plan
> supports tethering -- add another $20. Plus Sandman's plan works with
> multiple devices, so add another $25 for the iPad plan. Basically, to
> get an iPhone + iPad + tethered laptop online via AT&T will cost you
> $160/month. Plus probably, with a plan that expensive, another $20 in
> taxes and fees. And you're _still_ limited to 2 GB of data for the phone
> and laptop and a separate 2 GB for the iPad before you start paying
> overages.

yeah, att sucks. :D i'm not sure what sort of taxes and fees you're
paying, but i don't pay anywhere near that in taxes (even if you scale
up the cost of my plan- i pay $5 and change for 2 lines, out the door
for $110).

> Sprint is a _little_ cheaper, but not that much. They have an unlimited
> tax/text/data plan for $99 -- but tethering is an extra $30, and if you
> wanted to add a second data-only device like an iPad (not that the iPad
> works, because Sprint is CDMA) there's no reasonable way to do that --
> you'd have to get a whole separate data-only plan for $60/month for 5 GB.
>
> So Sprint ends of actually being $190/month -- well over $200 with taxes
> and fees.

sprint, in reality, for most people, is (or can be) a *lot* cheaper.
they have a whole slew of discounts just about anyone can qualify for,
and for many, paying for unlimited minutes doesn't make much sense
with their free mobile-to-mobile on any carrier. on my 2 lines, my
anytime minute usage went down from 2000+ minutes to less than 200
minutes per month when they switched to free mobile-to-mobile on any
network. :D

and the thing about having a different and plan is you don't have to
couple them- go ahead and use the att ipad plan. :D

> So basically, prices are _twice_ as high in the US,

the prices _can_be_ twice as high. i'm not sure why you're just
poopooing away the cheaper options. it's like you're looking for an
excuse to make u.s. plans look more expensive than they have to be.

> _and_ you still get
> less (capped data),

sure, with att.

> _and_ you have to navigate around the fact that
> there are three different incompatible standards here (AT&T's GSM on
> normal frequencies, T-Mobile's GSM on quirky frequencies, and Sprint and
> Version on CDMA.)

and?

> I would say "fucked up" is, in fact, a pretty good description of the US
> cellular market.

the plans are getting cheaper, for more services () and there's tons
of competition- i recall about 3 or 4 years ago you were talking about
not unlimited minutes, with unlimited modem speed data for something
like $200. now you can get unlimited minutes, sms/mms, data,
navigation, etc, for like $45. seriously, $45. what more do you
really want? :D
From: SMS on 10 Aug 2010 14:07
On 10/08/10 9:32 AM, ZnU wrote:

<snip>

> MetroPCS has plans in that range, but 1) they only have coverage in
> major cities and 2) they're on CDMA, which limits device choice.

You can get unlimited on Verizon/Straight Talk for $45 a month and it
works in all native Verizon areas, but no roaming, even for voice, onto
other systems.

You can get Boost Mobile on CDMA for $50/month and it works in all
native Sprint areas, but no roaming, even for voice, onto other systems.
Virgin has the same thing for $60 a month.

On the Boost CDMA (not iDEN) plan, people have reported being able to
get customer service to switch their service to Sprint CDMA handsets
other than the ones that are offered with the Boost plan, and tethering
apparently does work.
From: Ted Nelson on 10 Aug 2010 16:12
In article <79k06690kha6mr495vs4glaor6n2pfghlf(a)4ax.com>,
John Navas <spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote:

> >it means they put a plastic case around the device "before" it was
> >shipped, apple didn't so it requires a case, learn the difference.
>
> The case on the device is similar to the one on the iPhone 4.
> The only relevant difference is in the antenna placement.
> Learn the differences and the similarities.

what smartphone ships "in the raw" like the iphone 4? please give an
example or you are wrong.

> >> >so what is the difference?
> >>
> >> Bulk, fit, finish, ease of carrying it in a holster.
> >
> >yes, the apple case is brilliant, a true engineering accomplishment, so
> >you are right. it adds no bulk compared to the "built in" case based
> >smartphones, the fit, finish of apple's case is way beyond anything
> >else, and yes, it makes it even easier to carry.
>
> Nonsense.

didn't you read what i wrote above? you clearly did not.
From: John Navas on 10 Aug 2010 16:54
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 14:12:54 -0600, in
<4c61b2c6$0$89384$815e3792(a)news.qwest.net>, Ted Nelson <ted(a)rnelson.org>
wrote:

>In article <79k06690kha6mr495vs4glaor6n2pfghlf(a)4ax.com>,
> John Navas <spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote:
>
>> >it means they put a plastic case around the device "before" it was
>> >shipped, apple didn't so it requires a case, learn the difference.
>>
>> The case on the device is similar to the one on the iPhone 4.
>> The only relevant difference is in the antenna placement.
>> Learn the differences and the similarities.
>
>what smartphone ships "in the raw" like the iphone 4?

All of them.

>please give an
>example or you are wrong.

Who appointed you Rulemaker? ;)

>> >> >so what is the difference?
>> >>
>> >> Bulk, fit, finish, ease of carrying it in a holster.
>> >
>> >yes, the apple case is brilliant, a true engineering accomplishment, so
>> >you are right. it adds no bulk compared to the "built in" case based
>> >smartphones, the fit, finish of apple's case is way beyond anything
>> >else, and yes, it makes it even easier to carry.
>>
>> Nonsense.
>
>didn't you read what i wrote above? you clearly did not.

didn't you read what i wrote above? you clearly did not.

OMG, there's an echo here! :)

--
John

"Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level
and then beat you with experience." -Dr. Alan Zimmerman
First  |  Prev  |  Next  |  Last
Pages: 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92
Prev: NEWS: Security shortcomings in WPA2 that threaten security of wireless networks
Next: NEWS: Security shortcomings in WPA2 that threaten security ofwireless networks