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From: John Navas on 10 Aug 2010 21:49
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:46:38 -0700 (PDT), in
<d55c21a4-3f14-43a5-8aeb-c71c0128e61b(a)p7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, KDT
<scarface_74(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Aug 6, 11:31�am, John Navas <spamfilt...(a)navasgroup.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 19:29:24 -0500, in
>> <lloydparsons-257D54.19292405082...(a)idisk.mac.com>, Lloyd Parsons
>>
>> <lloydpars...(a)mac.com> wrote:
>> >In article <kvim565pseig2p2b8nh462eiqerfta9...(a)4ax.com>,
>> > John Navas <spamfilt...(a)navasgroup.com> wrote:
>> >> True, but Android phones on AT&T <http://goo.gl/EyTr> aren't generating
>> >> complaints the way iPhone has and still is.
>>
>> >A couple things to consider.
>>
>> >1. �How many Android phones are running on the Verizion network alone? �
>> >I don't know, but suspect it is quite a bit lower than iPhones on AT&T
>>
>> More than enough for complaints to surface. �Droid has been hot.
>>
>> >2. �Reports are that most Android phone users aren't buying many
>> >additional apps. �If that is so, does that impact?
>>
>> What reports?
>
>http://larvalabs.com/blog/android/android-market-payouts-total-2-of-app-stores-1b/

That's money, not apps. Far more Android apps are free than iPhone
apps. And Verizon Android users consume more data than iPhone users:
<http://goo.gl/BmBi>

--
John

"Assumption is the mother of all screw ups."
[Wethern�s Law of Suspended Judgement]
From: ZnU on 10 Aug 2010 21:53
In article
<5c2b9e50-660c-4315-805e-910e733fce61(a)l6g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
ed <news(a)atwistedweb.com> wrote:

> On Aug 10, 3:15�pm, ZnU <z...(a)fake.invalid> wrote:
> > �ed <n...(a)atwistedweb.com> wrote:
> > > On Aug 10, 9:32�am, ZnU <z...(a)fake.invalid> wrote:
> <snip>
> > > > Except that an AT&T smartphone plan with 2 GB of data and unlimited
> > > > talk/text is going to be on the order of $115.
> >
> > > um, ok. �that doesn't mean you can't get less expensive service. �we
> > > know att (and verizon) are expensive. �point is, it CAN be comparable
> > > (maybe even cheaper- can sandman get a 1 device unlimited plan in the
> > > $40-$50 range?).
> >
> > There's nothing remotely comparable to what he was describing without
> > spending quite a lot more. And _still_ getting capped data.
> > More generally, your response seems to be "Yeah, well we have low-end
> > plans cheaper than Sweden's high-end plans". This is silly. You don't
> > know what their low-end plans look like.
>
> - an unlimited voice, text, and data plan is low end to you because
> it's limited to one device?

You're quibbling. It's not comparable.

[snip]

> > > sprint, in reality, for most people, is (or can be) a *lot* cheaper.
> > > they have a whole slew of discounts just about anyone can qualify for,
> >
> > Where?
>
> the ridiculously good discounts are typically employer based- and if
> you don't care that you don't actually work somewhere, many of them
> don't actually verify (i'm not sure i have a problem with that, but i
> go with a 'legit' discount for myself even though i could get a higher
> discount):
> http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1757688
> people working for larger companies can check directly:
> http://delivery.sprint.com/m/p/nxt/ais/wdyw.asp?id16=iSearch_MA_071609_Employe
> eDiscounts&id16=Corporate+discount
> (my company isn't listed in the above list, but i have a 20% discount)

So by "a whole slew of discounts just about anyone can qualify for" you
mean "some discounts you can qualify for if you work for the right
company or you happen read forums that track cellular discounts and
you're willing to commit a bit of fraud".

Sounds like Sprint offers "a whole slew of discounts just about anyone
can qualify for" in the same sense that Android is "open". That is to
say, the closer you look, the less accurate the initial claim seems.

[snip]

> > That's your particular usage; assuming you still need more than 450
> > minutes of calls to/from non-cellphones (e.g. an average of 15 minutes a
> > day -- not a lot),
>
> yes, i didn't say for everyone. i said for many. and these days,
> that IS getting to be a bit- people are getting used to calling an
> 'always' available number- these days, 15% of homes have a land line
> and no cell, vs 25% with a cell and no land line.
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37109826

The problem is most offices/businesses are still making/taking calls on
landlines.

> > going with "Everything Data - with Any Mobile,
> > Anytime" rather than "Simply Everything" saves you all of $10/month.
> > > and the thing about having a different and plan is you don't have to
> > > couple them- go ahead and use the att ipad plan. �:D
> >
> > > > So basically, prices are _twice_ as high in the US,
> >
> > > the prices _can_be_ twice as high. �i'm not sure why you're just
> > > poopooing away the cheaper options. �it's like you're looking for an
> > > excuse to make u.s. plans look more expensive than they have to be.
> >
> > I'm looking for plans that are comparable to what Sandman mentioned --
> > and what I, personally, would jump at if it were actually available in
> > this country and compatible with the devices I want.
>
> ok. sweden undoubtedly has good plans- some of the cheapest in the
> world if i recall- but you can get something in the ballpark in the
> u.s. - not identical (nobody is claiming that), but in the ballpark.

If by "in the ballpark" you mean that for only a little more money, you
can get a plan that gives you unlimited data on one device and capped
tethering on another instead of unlimited data on three devices.

And of course that doesn't count the fact that Sandman mentioned there's
25% VAT included in that $80. So it's really a _$60_ plan that you'd
have to pay ~$180/month to not quite match with a major US carrier.

> > > > �_and_ you still get
> > > > less (capped data),
> >
> > > sure, with att.
> >
> > With Sprint as well, for tethering and data-only plans. Sprint will
> > basically only give you uncapped data to a handset, because they know
> > it's really hard to actually use it there.
>
> not really. ;D sprint doesn't actually care if you tether-
> blackberries come with the tether app installed (and functioning) for
> example, unlike on att and verizon.

It seems a lot of your solutions for getting a better deal out of US
cellular carriers involve contract violation and/or fraud.

> > > > �_and_ you have to navigate around the fact that
> > > > there are three different incompatible standards here (AT&T's GSM on
> > > > normal frequencies, T-Mobile's GSM on quirky frequencies, and Sprint
> > > > and
> > > > Version on CDMA.)
> >
> > > and?
> >
> > And it sucks.
>
> it sucks if you're trying to switch from one to the other all the
> time. otherwise, when's it really matter?

It sucks if you want a specific handset that's not available from a
given carrier. It sucks if you want to use the same handset in the US
and Europe and you don't want to use AT&T in the US. It sucks when your
current phone is broken/lost and you can't just pop the SIM card into
your old phone because it's CDMA or something.

[snip]

> > And honestly, if you exclude the bargain basement providers like Boost
> > and stick to the Big Four, there's not really all that _much_ progress.
> > Some high-end plans are cheaper. But... before switching to AT&T for the
> > iPhone in 2007, I was with T-Mobile since about 2002. At that time I was
> > paying $40/month for 600 minutes, no data and no included messaging.
> >
> > Know what you $40/month gets you from T-Mobile today, if you want a
> > subsidized phone (which I got in 2002)? 500 minutes, no data and no
> > included messaging. Plus, the per-message SMS fees are twice what they
> > used to be and you now have to sign a _two_ year contract rather than a
> > one year contract.
>
> so it seems like the no brainer if you want to go tmobile is go
> prepaid for $50 month with unlimited voice and messaging. ;D
>
> > It's really sort of shameful. The Big Four run the industry like a
> > cartel. When one decided to raise non-plan text messaging fees, the
> > others followed along. When one decided to double standard contract
> > lengths, the others followed along. Now the same thing seems to be
> > happening with the move away from unlimited data plans. Why is there not
> > a price fixing investigation going on here?
>
> you seem outraged at the pricing. i wasn't outraged, but i recognized
> there were better deals to be had. which is partly why i switched
> from att-verizon-sprint. happy here so far. ;D

I'm outraged at the fact that a small handful of telecom companies --
both with wireless service and with wired broadband -- have been allowed
to monopolize, overcharge for, underinvest in and limit access to
infrastructure that will be _the_ key foundation of the next 50 years of
economic growth. All because they make generous campaign contributions
to both parties.

And now that Google has sold us down the river on 'net neutrality, we're
really screwed.

--
"The game of professional investment is intolerably boring and over-exacting to
anyone who is entirely exempt from the gambling instinct; whilst he who has it
must pay to this propensity the appropriate toll." -- John Maynard Keynes
From: John Navas on 10 Aug 2010 21:53
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:44:15 -0700 (PDT), in
<710b642d-0b93-43a6-a3c1-c681d112bcc8(a)j8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, KDT
<scarface_74(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Aug 5, 7:52�pm, John Navas <spamfilt...(a)navasgroup.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 15:21:34 -0500, in
>> <lloydparsons-CEA3F6.15213405082...(a)idisk.mac.com>, Lloyd Parsons

>> >As to Android, yes they are selling lots these days, but the numbers are
>> >still small compared to the number of active iPhones,
>>
>> Depends on your definition of "small" -- 8.7 million Android handsets
>> here in the U.S. compared with 10.7 million iPhones according to
>> Quantcast.
>>
>> >and it is spread
>> >among providers.
>>
>> True, but Android phones on AT&T <http://goo.gl/EyTr> aren't generating
>> complaints the way iPhone has and still is.

>Who is actually buying an Android device on AT&T? The Motorala
>devices haven't exactly been breaking records.

"Is AT&T Selling Weak Android Phones to Make iPhone 4 Look Better?"
<http://goo.gl/C8HG>

--
John

"Assumption is the mother of all screw ups."
[Wethern�s Law of Suspended Judgement]
From: John Navas on 10 Aug 2010 21:55
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 17:50:37 -0700 (PDT), in
<a7f99870-11a3-46d0-86a3-21cad810b5f5(a)s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, KDT
<scarface_74(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Aug 8, 11:53�am, John Navas <spamfilt...(a)navasgroup.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 11:34:21 -0400, in

>> >In the long run, a platform which actually allows professional
>> >developers to make money from their apps is going to get much better
>> >apps.
>>
>> Available evidence suggests otherwise; e.g.,
>> <http://www.gomonews.com/android-go-boom-mobile-analytics-points-to-ex...>
>
>Development by *hobbyist* where are the professional apps?

They are there too, although I personally don't care where good apps
come from -- by far the best sailboat racing app on any mobile platform
was written by a "hobbyist" sailboat racer, not a professional.

--
John

"Assumption is the mother of all screw ups."
[Wethern�s Law of Suspended Judgement]
From: nospam on 10 Aug 2010 22:02
In article <o70466h3ac520dl0n6cah7gg894nauq2e3(a)4ax.com>, John Navas
<spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote:

> >> >2. �Reports are that most Android phone users aren't buying many
> >> >additional apps. �If that is so, does that impact?
> >>
> >> What reports?
> >
> >>http://larvalabs.com/blog/android/android-market-payouts-total-2-of-app-stor
> >es-1b/
>
> That's money, not apps. Far more Android apps are free than iPhone
> apps.

that's a bug not a feature.

android apps can only be sold in 13 out of 46 countries and developers
in only 9 countries can sell them. it's not at all surprising most apps
are free. there's no alternative!

developers need to make money. they're going to invest more time on
iphone where apps *are* profitable (and hugely so).

> And Verizon Android users consume more data than iPhone users:
> <http://goo.gl/BmBi>

what does that have to do with anything?
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