Ping Larkin
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From: John Larkin on 15 Oct 2009 14:13 On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:27:24 +0100, Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote: >John Larkin wrote: >> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:35:08 +0100, Martin Brown >> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> But in the USA it is also the enormous portions of food at the popular >>> restaurants that plays a part in supersizing the population. >> >> It's not a conspiracy; the restaurants offer what people want. > >But as the average US population becomes fatter and fatter they just >want more and more. Twenty years ago a reasonably fit 6' adult male in a >US restaurant could just about eat the entire meal and be uncomfortably >full. These days there is enough for at least one extra meal on the >plate. Perhaps it is time to limit servings to the amount that a healthy >adult can eat (maybe plus 10%). Gluttony is not pretty. Who is going to limit portion size? Or how many courses a diner is allowed to order, or how much he eats off his wife's plate? I, like lots of people, like large servings. I eat a third or maybe half and take the rest to go. That's probably a consequence of the actual cost of food being a minor component of the restaurant's total costs. My company is much like a restaurant. Our cost of parts runs around 22% of revenue, just about what a typical restaurant pays for food. So we don't sweat over a few more parts, if it adds features, as the restaurant doesn't worry about serving a little more pasta if it attracts some customers. We do have a bunch of tapas and dim sum places, where a meal is a number of small servings. And one can usually make a nice small meal off the appetizer menu. Or share a salad and an entree. That's one limit on portion sizes: they encourage sharing. Interestingly, if you say "we'll split the salad" they usually bring two plates full of salad, for the price of one. > >Catering for the calorific intake of the morbidly obese is asking for >trouble. Particularly in those establishments where you don't have to >pay if you leave a clean plate which I find exceptionally gross. >> >> I take the leftovers to go. I get two or three meals from one >> restaurant serving. Two or three meals from a $7 entree is a pretty >> good deal, and it avoids cooking some week-nights. > >However, there are a lot of people that finish the plate and are eating >themselves into an early grave and loads of expensive health problems on >the way. True. But there's no way to stop them. They can order appetizers and dessert, or go home and snack before bedtime. > >I suppose the "customer is always right". I am reminded of the cartoon >with the sign writer part way through painting that slogan with a little >old lady saying to him "Young man, there are two m's in custommer" . >> >> I do recall a prix-fixe meal at Paul Bocuse' place that was >> overwhelming, and I couldn't take it home. And not $9. > >Sort of place where you choose the pudding at the outset because of the >time it takes to make it... l'Auberge or the brasserie l'<points of >compass>? Does he have outposts in California or were you in Lyons? Just north of Lyon. It was wonderful, but I was full after the beautiful fish-in-pastry-shell thing, pretty early on. We met PB, very nice guy. Some years ago, of course. John
From: Rich Grise on 15 Oct 2009 19:26 On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:54:01 -0700, dagmargoodboat wrote: > On Oct 14, 11:35 am, Martin Brown wrote: > >> And it tends to be the poorer members of society that eat the most junk >> food - it is after all the cheapest mass produced food. > > Fat Foolishness > http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=508637 The obesity epidemic is caused by the food nazis taking real fat out of everything - your body starves for fat (which is the primary component of the myelin sheath around nerve fibers), so grabs and holds onto every molecule of fat it encounters, like a camel anticipating a famine. Plus, people try to feed their emotional hungers with physical foods, which clearly doesn't do any good. That saddles you with the dilemma of finding emotional nourishment, which is already an onerous task in today's puritanical, statist society. Hope This Helps! Rich
From: Martin Brown on 16 Oct 2009 04:34 John Larkin wrote: > On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:27:24 +0100, Martin Brown > <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >> John Larkin wrote: >>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:35:08 +0100, Martin Brown >>> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> But in the USA it is also the enormous portions of food at the popular >>>> restaurants that plays a part in supersizing the population. >>> It's not a conspiracy; the restaurants offer what people want. >> But as the average US population becomes fatter and fatter they just >> want more and more. Twenty years ago a reasonably fit 6' adult male in a >> US restaurant could just about eat the entire meal and be uncomfortably >> full. These days there is enough for at least one extra meal on the >> plate. Perhaps it is time to limit servings to the amount that a healthy >> adult can eat (maybe plus 10%). Gluttony is not pretty. > > Who is going to limit portion size? Or how many courses a diner is > allowed to order, or how much he eats off his wife's plate? Mere practical details. But you seem to deny there is a problem. > > I, like lots of people, like large servings. I eat a third or maybe > half and take the rest to go. That's probably a consequence of the > actual cost of food being a minor component of the restaurant's total > costs. I guess you are right. It may be a cultural thing but doggie bags have a distinct yuck factor for us Europeans. I can't really think of anything worse than taking away well cooked uneaten restaurant food and then warming it up later in the week. I have sometimes done it in the US since it offends me to see so much food go to waste. > > My company is much like a restaurant. Our cost of parts runs around > 22% of revenue, just about what a typical restaurant pays for food. So A ratio of 4-5x cost of parts is standard in high growth hitech bespoke electronic instruments which I presume is your market niche. > we don't sweat over a few more parts, if it adds features, as the > restaurant doesn't worry about serving a little more pasta if it > attracts some customers. We have too many bean counters in the UK. Companies I work for would not put stuff into production until the material cost to price ratio was right. This meant they would often be cheapskates on random components. > > We do have a bunch of tapas and dim sum places, where a meal is a > number of small servings. And one can usually make a nice small meal > off the appetizer menu. Or share a salad and an entree. That's one > limit on portion sizes: they encourage sharing. > > Interestingly, if you say "we'll split the salad" they usually bring > two plates full of salad, for the price of one. The salad cost is noise in the general scheme of things. > >> Catering for the calorific intake of the morbidly obese is asking for >> trouble. Particularly in those establishments where you don't have to >> pay if you leave a clean plate which I find exceptionally gross. >>> I take the leftovers to go. I get two or three meals from one >>> restaurant serving. Two or three meals from a $7 entree is a pretty >>> good deal, and it avoids cooking some week-nights. >> However, there are a lot of people that finish the plate and are eating >> themselves into an early grave and loads of expensive health problems on >> the way. > > True. But there's no way to stop them. They can order appetizers and > dessert, or go home and snack before bedtime. I guess my point is that making overeating the norm is a bad thing. >>> I do recall a prix-fixe meal at Paul Bocuse' place that was >>> overwhelming, and I couldn't take it home. And not $9. >> Sort of place where you choose the pudding at the outset because of the >> time it takes to make it... l'Auberge or the brasserie l'<points of >> compass>? Does he have outposts in California or were you in Lyons? > > Just north of Lyon. It was wonderful, but I was full after the > beautiful fish-in-pastry-shell thing, pretty early on. We met PB, very > nice guy. Some years ago, of course. If you are into fine dining Relais&Chateaux is fun touring in Europe. Regards, Martin Brown
From: dagmargoodboat on 16 Oct 2009 10:24 On Oct 15, 6:26 pm, Rich Grise <richgr...(a)example.net> wrote: > On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:54:01 -0700, dagmargoodboat wrote: > > On Oct 14, 11:35 am, Martin Brown wrote: > > >> And it tends to be the poorer members of society that eat the most junk > >> food - it is after all the cheapest mass produced food. > > > Fat Foolishness > >http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=508637 > > The obesity epidemic is caused by the food nazis taking real fat out of > everything How so? And what's "real" fat? Last I looked, despite the "low fat craze", Americans were eating more total fat than ever, and more total calories than ever. (Typical Americans get ~40% of calories from fat. Asians, more like 10-12%. Used to be, anyhow.) - your body starves for fat (which is the primary component of > the myelin sheath around nerve fibers), so grabs and holds onto every > molecule of fat it encounters, like a camel anticipating a famine. You can make all the fats you need, with the exception of the essential fatty acids, e.g. omega-3s and omega-6s. Those you have to consume. > Plus, people try to feed their emotional hungers with physical foods, > which clearly doesn't do any good. > > That saddles you with the dilemma of finding emotional nourishment, which > is already an onerous task in today's puritanical, statist society. You can eat to live, or live to eat. One way, you'll be fat. -- Cheers, James Arthur
From: John Larkin on 16 Oct 2009 22:10
On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:34:31 +0100, Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote: >John Larkin wrote: >> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:27:24 +0100, Martin Brown >> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:35:08 +0100, Martin Brown >>>> <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>>> >>>>> But in the USA it is also the enormous portions of food at the popular >>>>> restaurants that plays a part in supersizing the population. >>>> It's not a conspiracy; the restaurants offer what people want. >>> But as the average US population becomes fatter and fatter they just >>> want more and more. Twenty years ago a reasonably fit 6' adult male in a >>> US restaurant could just about eat the entire meal and be uncomfortably >>> full. These days there is enough for at least one extra meal on the >>> plate. Perhaps it is time to limit servings to the amount that a healthy >>> adult can eat (maybe plus 10%). Gluttony is not pretty. >> >> Who is going to limit portion size? Or how many courses a diner is >> allowed to order, or how much he eats off his wife's plate? > >Mere practical details. But you seem to deny there is a problem. I'm not denying that there are lots of fat people around... more in other parts of the country than here in California. Do you propose to legally limit serving sizes in restaurants? >> >> I, like lots of people, like large servings. I eat a third or maybe >> half and take the rest to go. That's probably a consequence of the >> actual cost of food being a minor component of the restaurant's total >> costs. > >I guess you are right. It may be a cultural thing but doggie bags have a >distinct yuck factor for us Europeans. I can't really think of anything >worse than taking away well cooked uneaten restaurant food and then >warming it up later in the week. I have sometimes done it in the US >since it offends me to see so much food go to waste. It's very common in the US. It use to be considered a bit tasteless, but no more. >> >> My company is much like a restaurant. Our cost of parts runs around >> 22% of revenue, just about what a typical restaurant pays for food. So > >A ratio of 4-5x cost of parts is standard in high growth hitech bespoke >electronic instruments which I presume is your market niche. > >> we don't sweat over a few more parts, if it adds features, as the >> restaurant doesn't worry about serving a little more pasta if it >> attracts some customers. > >We have too many bean counters in the UK. Companies I work for would not >put stuff into production until the material cost to price ratio was >right. This meant they would often be cheapskates on random components. >> >> We do have a bunch of tapas and dim sum places, where a meal is a >> number of small servings. And one can usually make a nice small meal >> off the appetizer menu. Or share a salad and an entree. That's one >> limit on portion sizes: they encourage sharing. >> >> Interestingly, if you say "we'll split the salad" they usually bring >> two plates full of salad, for the price of one. > >The salad cost is noise in the general scheme of things. >> >>> Catering for the calorific intake of the morbidly obese is asking for >>> trouble. Particularly in those establishments where you don't have to >>> pay if you leave a clean plate which I find exceptionally gross. >>>> I take the leftovers to go. I get two or three meals from one >>>> restaurant serving. Two or three meals from a $7 entree is a pretty >>>> good deal, and it avoids cooking some week-nights. >>> However, there are a lot of people that finish the plate and are eating >>> themselves into an early grave and loads of expensive health problems on >>> the way. >> >> True. But there's no way to stop them. They can order appetizers and >> dessert, or go home and snack before bedtime. > >I guess my point is that making overeating the norm is a bad thing. > >>>> I do recall a prix-fixe meal at Paul Bocuse' place that was >>>> overwhelming, and I couldn't take it home. And not $9. >>> Sort of place where you choose the pudding at the outset because of the >>> time it takes to make it... l'Auberge or the brasserie l'<points of >>> compass>? Does he have outposts in California or were you in Lyons? >> >> Just north of Lyon. It was wonderful, but I was full after the >> beautiful fish-in-pastry-shell thing, pretty early on. We met PB, very >> nice guy. Some years ago, of course. > >If you are into fine dining Relais&Chateaux is fun touring in Europe. Yup. But I'll eat anything... bread and cheese is fine, too. The best stuff I had in France was calloulet (in Baune) and bouillabaisse (in Marseilles.) I have peasant tastes. John |