What is the meaning of life for the atheist
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From: Mark Edwards on 3 Aug 2010 20:29 No cluons were harmed when Jimbo wrote: > it should be possible to interfere with the process of >> becoming pregnant in the first place, My first wife and I were on at least our third place before she got pregnant. Mark Edwards -- Proof of Sanity Forged Upon Request
From: Excognito on 4 Aug 2010 16:23 On 3 Aug, 19:12, Jimbo <ckdbig...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Aug 2, 1:22 pm, Excognito <stuartbr...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Aug 2, 5:43 pm, Jimbo <ckdbig...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Aug 2, 9:18 am, Excognito <stuartbr...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Aug 2, 1:40 pm, Jimbo <ckdbig...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Jul 31, 6:51 pm, Excognito <stuartbr...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On 31 July, 23:18, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:08:17 -0700 (PDT), Excognito > > > > > > > <stuartbr...(a)gmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism: > > > > > > > > >On 31 July, 19:17, SkyEyes <skyey...(a)cox.net> wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Jul 30, 4:55 am, "n...(a)bid.nes" <alien8...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > I am anti-abortion. For me it's not about spirituality. > > > > > > > > >> > Abortion is not only murder (causing the death of an innocent) by > > > > > > > >> > human law, it is a crime against the species. > > > > > > > > >> And slavery *isn't*? Because, face it, that's what forcing a woman to > > > > > > > >> have a child she does not want amounts to. > > > > > > > > >An interesting point of view. > > > > > > > > >What about when, say, a couple of months after young one arrives, I > > > > > > > >realize the true impact of having a child on my 'freedom'? The state > > > > > > > >now insists that I can't just drop it into the garbage can, even > > > > > > > >though I've discovered I don't want it any more. Social norms (in my > > > > > > > >neck of the woods, at least) impose their own pressures to keep it > > > > > > > >instead of dumping it on somebody's doorstep. Is this slavery as well? > > > > > > > > Actually we do have processes that allow you to give up a child. It is > > > > > > > true that once you have kept it for a while you would face serious > > > > > > > social pressures not to decide that it's too much trouble, but the > > > > > > > processes are in place. > > > > > > > But I'm not allowed to kill it, > > > > > > Because it is now an independent person, not riding around in your > > > > > body. > > > > > Independent? Good. It doesn't need me or anybody else anymore.. > > > It doesn't need you specifically, > > > but you said it's independent - are you changing your mind? > > Did you not understand the context? Independent of your body. It > doesn't need you specifically. Stop arguing like an obtuse schoolgirl. No, I didn't the context. Are you stating that it is merely the difference between being on 'internal' life-support v 'external' life- support that distinguishes the moral/legal positions of disposing of a mere biological unit versus killing a human being?
From: Excognito on 4 Aug 2010 16:24 On 3 Aug, 19:11, Jimbo <ckdbig...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Aug 2, 1:11 pm, Excognito <stuartbr...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Aug 2, 5:43 pm, Jimbo <ckdbig...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Aug 2, 9:24 am, Excognito <stuartbr...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Aug 2, 1:45 pm, Jimbo <ckdbig...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Aug 1, 11:22 pm, "Dr. HotSalt" <alien8...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 31, 11:17 am, SkyEyes <skyey...(a)cox.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Jul 30, 4:55 am, "n...(a)bid.nes" <alien8...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I am anti-abortion. For me it's not about spirituality. > > > > > > > > > Abortion is not only murder (causing the death of an innocent) by > > > > > > > > human law, it is a crime against the species. > > > > > > > > And slavery *isn't*? Because, face it, that's what forcing a woman to > > > > > > > have a child she does not want amounts to. > > > > > > > Nowadays we know what causes pregnancy. > > > > > > Not even remotely the point. > > > > > I think you'll find it's closely related > > > > Not even in the slightest. > > > You're quite right. I should not have implied, nor considered, that > > you would follow the argument or have a rationale that justifies your > > assertions.- Hide quoted text - > > They've already been justified. You're trying to conflate two > unrelated issues. We do not live on Fantasy Island, so the chances of > eliminating all unwanted/undesired pregnancies, or eliminating > conditions where a pregnancy may have been wanted/desired initially, > wasn't after conception. Abortion cannot simply be wished away. Where had they been justified before?
From: Excognito on 4 Aug 2010 16:43 On 3 Aug, 19:11, Jimbo <ckdbig...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Aug 2, 1:11 pm, Excognito <stuartbr...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Aug 2, 5:43 pm, Jimbo <ckdbig...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Aug 2, 9:24 am, Excognito <stuartbr...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Aug 2, 1:45 pm, Jimbo <ckdbig...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Aug 1, 11:22 pm, "Dr. HotSalt" <alien8...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 31, 11:17 am, SkyEyes <skyey...(a)cox.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Jul 30, 4:55 am, "n...(a)bid.nes" <alien8...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I am anti-abortion. For me it's not about spirituality. > > > > > > > > > Abortion is not only murder (causing the death of an innocent) by > > > > > > > > human law, it is a crime against the species. > > > > > > > > And slavery *isn't*? Because, face it, that's what forcing a woman to > > > > > > > have a child she does not want amounts to. > > > > > > > Nowadays we know what causes pregnancy. > > > > > > Not even remotely the point. > > > > > I think you'll find it's closely related > > > > Not even in the slightest. > > > You're quite right. I should not have implied, nor considered, that > > you would follow the argument or have a rationale that justifies your > > assertions.- Hide quoted text - > > They've already been justified. > You're trying to conflate two unrelated issues. Possibly, but I don't believe so. > We do not live on Fantasy Island, so the chances of > eliminating all unwanted/undesired pregnancies, or eliminating > conditions where a pregnancy may have been wanted/desired initially, > wasn't after conception. Abortion cannot simply be wished away. Do you have statistics on the percentage ratio of unintentional- unwanted v intentional-unwanted? What reduction in percentage of the current rates do you think better education / contraception use could produce?
From: Otto Bahn on 5 Aug 2010 11:44
"Jimbo" <ckdbigtoe(a)gmail.com> wrote > > > > > > > I am anti-abortion. For me it's not about spirituality. > > > > > > > > Abortion is not only murder (causing the death of an innocent) > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > human law, it is a crime against the species. > > > > > > > And slavery *isn't*? Because, face it, that's what forcing a > > > > > > woman to > > > > > > have a child she does not want amounts to. > > > > > > Nowadays we know what causes pregnancy. > > > > > Not even remotely the point. > > > > I think you'll find it's closely related > > > Not even in the slightest. > > Sigh. All this time and you didn't look in the Obvious Bag. > > it is exactly the point. > > If you aren't pregnant, you don't need to consider having an > abortion, now do you? < <But the fact remains that unwanted pregnancies do happen, they have <always happened, and they will continue to happen, so how is that <relevant to the discussion about the right to chose to abort? Such <pregnancies can be reduced by proper education, birth control/condoms, <etc......but they are never going away. The question is whether or not what you are killing (aka "aborting") is a human being. 36 weeks don't cut it. Where's your line? --oTTo-- |