Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: Yap on 25 Aug 2008 04:50 On Aug 25, 4:02 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > "Sam Brown" <sambr...(a)bleusky.net> wrote in message > > news:X-OdnZhukqVy0C_VnZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d(a)giganews.com... > > > > > > > Is it my imagination, or is it starting to sound more and more like > > you're trying to convince yourself of what you say, more than convince > > me? > > > One more time, let me try and make it perfectly clear to you that I am > > convinced that I cannot in any way, shape or form, change the way you > > perceive the world around you, and therefore change the way you think. > > And so, I know it would be a waste of time (and bandwidth) to make the > > attempt. > > > The same thing holds true with you. You're not going to change my > > outlook on life, and the way I think. So you can save all your buzzwords > > like "sky pixie" and "fairy tales" and "myths" for someone else. They > > won't have any effect on me at all. I've heard it all before, ad > > infinitum, in face to face discussion groups, at church and at university. > > > Only God can change the way anyone views the world and life. > > And all I'm saying to you is, He will cause you to believe everything > > I'm saying now, sometime in the future. I'm not trying to change > > anything. That change will come later. And it won't be me that causes > > the change. > > > Please don't make me have to repeat this again. I think I've made it > > crystal clear to you by now. > > The only problem we have, Sam, (and I assume by "change" - you mean the Day > of Reckoning, The Second Coming, Armageddon, Rapture, whatever- correct me > if I'm wrong) is that we know that you get the whole idea of this coming > "change" from an ancient text written by unreliable sources. > What we fail to understand is why you think all of these supernatural events > are going to happen, simply on the basis of some wild ideas written by > mystics a long time ago. > Particularly, is there any specific reason why you choose to believe the > ancient Hebrew mystics rather than others? > We have asked others about it before, and the best answer they can give is > simply "I just know". > Can you understand why we fail to be impressed or convinced by that > argument? > If you really did have something concrete or tangible other than the book, > I'd be the first to join you, but for now, I am simply at a loss as to why a > reasonably intelligent person would believe in that kind of stuff. > Seriously. > It really , really puzzles me. > I can understand why people like Winn can end up with the kind of beliefs > they have, it's basically a mental health problem- but I don't understand > why rational , thinking people believe the same thing in the face of zero > evidence. > This is something I have been trying to understand since I started posting > in alt. atheism, and I still don't get it. > I hope you don't embarrass me by claiming that this doubt is simply "God" > nagging away at me, because I know that it isn't. ;-) > > -- > Steve O > a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter) > B.A.A.W.A. > Convicted by Earthquack > Exempt from purgatory by papal indulgence- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, Steve, you are much more specific than me. But I think Sam could not answer, except to refer to ancient tales which sssssssaid ssssso. Otherwise, he could explain easily with reasons. Rather, I speculate that he is afraid that his reasons will be laughing stock.
From: Alex W. on 25 Aug 2008 14:05 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:bd8addc3-f4d6-42df-9745-d8cd5af65c62(a)x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... On Aug 25, 12:46?am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > I've never fully understood the Mormon attitude to Jesus, Winn, perhaps > you > could explain it? > > -- We are members of his church. You might want to look up the correct name of the church. ========== What's in a name? The last Stalinist dictatorship on the planet is officially called the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Do we believe it is either democratic, or a republic?
From: Steve O on 25 Aug 2008 14:44 "Yap" <hhyapster(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:f2697257-2749-490e-b447-1a0c9b739b58(a)s1g2000pra.googlegroups.com... > On Aug 25, 4:02 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >> "Sam Brown" <sambr...(a)bleusky.net> wrote in message >> >> news:X-OdnZhukqVy0C_VnZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d(a)giganews.com... >> >> >> >> >> >> > Is it my imagination, or is it starting to sound more and more like >> > you're trying to convince yourself of what you say, more than convince >> > me? >> >> > One more time, let me try and make it perfectly clear to you that I am >> > convinced that I cannot in any way, shape or form, change the way you >> > perceive the world around you, and therefore change the way you think. >> > And so, I know it would be a waste of time (and bandwidth) to make the >> > attempt. >> >> > The same thing holds true with you. You're not going to change my >> > outlook on life, and the way I think. So you can save all your >> > buzzwords >> > like "sky pixie" and "fairy tales" and "myths" for someone else. They >> > won't have any effect on me at all. I've heard it all before, ad >> > infinitum, in face to face discussion groups, at church and at >> > university. >> >> > Only God can change the way anyone views the world and life. >> > And all I'm saying to you is, He will cause you to believe everything >> > I'm saying now, sometime in the future. I'm not trying to change >> > anything. That change will come later. And it won't be me that causes >> > the change. >> >> > Please don't make me have to repeat this again. I think I've made it >> > crystal clear to you by now. >> >> The only problem we have, Sam, (and I assume by "change" - you mean the >> Day >> of Reckoning, The Second Coming, Armageddon, Rapture, whatever- correct >> me >> if I'm wrong) is that we know that you get the whole idea of this coming >> "change" from an ancient text written by unreliable sources. >> What we fail to understand is why you think all of these supernatural >> events >> are going to happen, simply on the basis of some wild ideas written by >> mystics a long time ago. >> Particularly, is there any specific reason why you choose to believe the >> ancient Hebrew mystics rather than others? >> We have asked others about it before, and the best answer they can give >> is >> simply "I just know". >> Can you understand why we fail to be impressed or convinced by that >> argument? >> If you really did have something concrete or tangible other than the >> book, >> I'd be the first to join you, but for now, I am simply at a loss as to >> why a >> reasonably intelligent person would believe in that kind of stuff. >> Seriously. >> It really , really puzzles me. >> I can understand why people like Winn can end up with the kind of beliefs >> they have, it's basically a mental health problem- but I don't understand >> why rational , thinking people believe the same thing in the face of zero >> evidence. >> This is something I have been trying to understand since I started >> posting >> in alt. atheism, and I still don't get it. >> I hope you don't embarrass me by claiming that this doubt is simply "God" >> nagging away at me, because I know that it isn't. ;-) >> >> -- >> Steve O >> a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter) >> B.A.A.W.A. >> Convicted by Earthquack >> Exempt from purgatory by papal indulgence- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Well, Steve, you are much more specific than me. > But I think Sam could not answer, except to refer to ancient tales > which sssssssaid ssssso. > Otherwise, he could explain easily with reasons. > Rather, I speculate that he is afraid that his reasons will be > laughing stock. Well, maybe. But I know that there are committed Christians who are intelligent, logical and fully capable of using all of their reasoning skills, yet they still believe in an illogical faith. It's hard for me to reconcile that- I simply can't understand how they manage to compartmentalize their thinking in that way. I've just finished reading "The language of God" by Francis Collins. If you weren't aware, Frank Collins is the Director of the Human Genome Project- a highly intelligent and accomplished scientist who tries to argue for God. I can see why his arguments don't work - he basically relies on the idea of the universal moral law and leans heavily on C.S. Lewis when he delves into the romantic side of religion - but I'm left wondering why a scientist capable of running a massively successful scientific project can still fall for the oldest con trick in the book- religion. Then again, it is abundantly clear that he is terrified of death, so perhaps that might be clouding his judgment and reasoning skills. -- Steve O a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter) B.A.A.W.A. Convicted by Earthquack Exempt from purgatory by papal indulgence
From: rbwinn on 25 Aug 2008 15:07 On Aug 25, 7:11�am, Yap <hhyaps...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Aug 25, 9:00�pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > x > > > By that, we can also manipulate to grow taller, etc. > > > Nothing will be static in years to come, or more precisely, not > > > predestined.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > It looks like Sam Brown converted you to predestination. � So why did > > you start out saying that people should have choices? > > Robert B. Winn > > You don't seem to understand anything. > When did I concede predestination to Sam? Well, actually when you said you were an atheist. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 25 Aug 2008 17:55
On Aug 25, 11:05�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > news:bd8addc3-f4d6-42df-9745-d8cd5af65c62(a)x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > On Aug 25, 12:46?am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > > > I've never fully understood the Mormon attitude to Jesus, Winn, perhaps > > you > > could explain it? > > > -- > > We are members of his church. �You might want to look up the correct > name of the church. > > ========== > > What's in a name? > The last Stalinist dictatorship on the planet is officially called the > Democratic People's Republic of Korea. �Do we believe it is either > democratic, or a republic? Well, that was something put together by atheists. I guess an atheist would be the best person to ask about it. Robert B. Winn |