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From: dorayme on 24 Dec 2009 16:18 In article <m2tyvglhtf.fsf(a)revier.com>, Jochem Huhmann <joh(a)gmx.net> wrote: > dorayme <doraymeRidThis(a)optusnet.com.au> writes: > > > The main point is that people with genetic factors to obesity need much > > more self control. So telling them to exercise it is to tell them to do > > something that is the more difficult, the more the genetic factor is > > big. There is a link and a tension here. > > Of course they need more self control because eating and consuming is > more important to them than doing and moving. You go wrong immediately with the unsaid implication that it is less important to them than anyone else. > Restricting that is like > trying not to breathe then. What you have to tell them is not "eat > less" but "do other things that make you feel satisfied and in control". > This is incredibly naive! It is more complex than this. Think two equally strong men, one with a 50kg ball chained to his leg, and they set off on a journey. Now, make one of your cute speeches of advice to the poor guy with the chain. Keep out of his arm's reach! <g> > >> I think a real genetic factor would be if it would lead to people eating > >> and move around as much as others and still gain much more weight. > >> > > > > That is not the crucial test, it is a simple fact that by and large, if > > people of the same weight eat exactly the same and exercise exactly the > > same, they will differ not that much. There are probably interesting > > differences but they would not be gross. > > OK, you agree then that what this genetic factor does is not to directly > cause overweight but to cause enjoy eating too much and enjoy moving too > less I agree to no such thing Jochem! You misunderstand the situation from beginning to end. People with certain genetic dispositions simply do not feel satisfied as early as "normal" people. > > Happy holidays, by the way. > > And you too! Easy on the Xmas pudding! <g> -- dorayme
From: dorayme on 24 Dec 2009 16:21 In article <241220090718227042%aeiou(a)mostly.invalid>, Mark Conrad <aeiou(a)mostly.invalid> wrote: > A top-of-the-line _unregulated_ blood lab would have > spotted your rare blood type. So would a top of the line government owned one. What is your point? -- dorayme
From: dorayme on 24 Dec 2009 16:25 In article <0001HW.C7590826002CF88FB01029BF(a)News.Individual.NET>, TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft(a)me.com> wrote: > On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 23:15:27 -0600, dorayme wrote > (in article <doraymeRidThis-B80A0B.16152724122009(a)news.albasani.net>): > > [continuing in the discussion in this thread regarding obesity] > > > It is hard to know what you are thinking of as big or small factor. It > > is a big factor as far as I can tell from the science known and > > indicated strongly. So I will tell you what I mean by big. If millions > > of people have ample opportunity to eat as much as they like and all > > have equal opportunity to exercise and the millions that do grow really > > fat almost overwhelmingly have a genetic factor that the millions who > > don't lack, then it is a big factor... > > Given that the percentage of those with a "genetic propensity for obesity" is > small I wouldn't consider that to be a "big" factor in regards to the massive > increase in obesity, especially that here in the United States. And, I'm one > who is willing to state that for the majority of the population obesity is > something that can be avoided by proper diet and exercise. > > I do find it unfortunate that the "appropriate" sizes of servings have > increased dramatically during my lifetime. An example is that of Coca-Cola > which has changed from a 6 oz. size to a 12 oz. size and is now moving in the > direction of something in the range of 16 oz. And if you go to such as > McDonald's the emphasis is on size. But, as so many want to say, "It's not my > fault!" I was talking the obesity largely influenced by genetics. You seem to be talking human beings generally. We all are prone to get fatter if we have bad diets and exercise less. -- dorayme
From: Kurt Ullman on 24 Dec 2009 16:53 In article <doraymeRidThis-BFB5BD.08185825122009(a)news.albasani.net>, dorayme <doraymeRidThis(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > Restricting that is like > > trying not to breathe then. What you have to tell them is not "eat > > less" but "do other things that make you feel satisfied and in control". > > > > This is incredibly naive! It is more complex than this. Think two > equally strong men, one with a 50kg ball chained to his leg, and they > set off on a journey. Now, make one of your cute speeches of advice to > the poor guy with the chain. Keep out of his arm's reach! <g> > Of course in this scenario, the guy with the 50kg ball has the key to the chain. It is not in a very convenient place, but there none the less. > > Happy holidays, by the way. > > > > > > And you too! Easy on the Xmas pudding! <g> You, too. Both of you. -- To find that place where the rats don't race and the phones don't ring at all. If once, you've slept on an island. Scott Kirby "If once you've slept on an island"
From: dorayme on 24 Dec 2009 18:20
In article <2uadnbSdqvhTf67WnZ2dnUVZ_sdi4p2d(a)earthlink.com>, Kurt Ullman <kurtullman(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > In article <doraymeRidThis-BFB5BD.08185825122009(a)news.albasani.net>, > dorayme <doraymeRidThis(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > > Restricting that is like > > > trying not to breathe then. What you have to tell them is not "eat > > > less" but "do other things that make you feel satisfied and in control". > > > > > > > This is incredibly naive! It is more complex than this. Think two > > equally strong men, one with a 50kg ball chained to his leg, and they > > set off on a journey. Now, make one of your cute speeches of advice to > > the poor guy with the chain. Keep out of his arm's reach! <g> > > > > Of course in this scenario, the guy with the 50kg ball has the key to > the chain. It is not in a very convenient place, but there none the less. So, while he is trying to get it, where do think the guy without the chain will be? (Hint: he might be finished the journey!) -- dorayme |