MacSOUP vs. MT-NewsWatcher
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From: Richard Maine on 30 Mar 2010 12:17 Tommaso Passi <tommaso(a)qzerty.com> wrote: > Richard Maine <nospam(a)see.signature> wrote: > > > A non-Mac behavior that particularly irks me is the behavior on closing > > the "main" window (the one I think of as the newsgroups window, but it > > calls settings). It is basically a mistake to ever close that Window in > > MacSOUP. If you do, it is a bother to open it up again. You basically > > have to bring up MacSOUP (which won't show any windows), then shut it > > down completely (with flower-Q), then restart it. Otherwise, you'd have > > to go browse to your settings file and tell it to open that. If you keep > > multiple settings files that might make sense. But if, like me, you only > > have one settings file and so you make it your default, you probably > > forget exactly where and what it was. You normally just open MacSOUP and > > it does the right thing..... as long as MacSOUP was not already running. > > If you accidentally leave it running by closing the settings window > > instead of hitting flower-Q, then on opening it you just end up staring > > at nothing but a title bar. > > You can use MacSOUP's default settings file feature, from page 7 of > MacSOUP's Manual: > > "make an alias of the settings file, name it "MacSOUP Default Settings" > and put it in the preferences folder "~/Library/Preferences". MacSOUP > will then use this settings file by default." I don't think you read my description of the problem. I *DO* use the default settings file. That's why things work fine if I completely quit MacSOUP and restart it. If I didn't use the default, then at least things would be consistent. Awkward, but consistent. But the default only applies on starting from scratch, which means that the behavior when not starting from scratch is inconsistent as well as awkward. It doesn't do anything if you close the settings window without quitting MacSOUP. I'm betting you must never do that, or you'd recognize the bahavior right away. Go ahead... Close all the windows in MacSOUP. That's close them, as in with the red button (or with flower-w); don't just minimize them to the dock. MacSOUP should still show in the dock as running, although having no windows. Then click on the MacSOUP dock icon just as you would to start it from scratch. Absolutely nothing will happen. No windows open. The default file will not help. You either have to browse to the file and select it (I might add that the browse probably won't even start in the right directory), or completely quit MacSOUP and restart. No, I'm not interested in explanations about why there is some internal reason why this is logical to someone. Intuitive user interface is about not having to explain to me why things are awkward. -- Richard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience; email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment. domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain
From: M-M on 30 Mar 2010 13:04 In article <1jg4v3h.af3w5g1g6cw3wN%nospam(a)see.signature>, nospam(a)see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote: > That being said, as noted, I do use MacSOUP for its good points. Can you please elaborate on the good points of MacSoup vs. MT-NW. I know about thread trees and that is something I can certainly live without. Anything else? -- m-m http://www.mhmyers.com
From: Doc O'Leary on 30 Mar 2010 12:55 In article <1jg6c8w.enocxq2l74fsN%jamiekg(a)wizardling.geek.nz>, jamiekg(a)wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote: > Doc O'Leary <droleary.usenet(a)1q2010.subsume.com> wrote: > > > In article <1jg4k6m.5q6wznc0l6oxN%jamiekg(a)wizardling.geek.nz>, > > jamiekg(a)wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote: > > > > > MacSOUP is an offline reader. > > > > Abstractly, there is no such thing. There is no reason to burden the > > user, unless they *want* to be burdened for some reason, when it comes > > to the network status on a moment by moment basis. I've even thought of > > writing my own easy-to-use NNTP caching proxy to make *any* reader an > > "offline" one, along with providing features that are poorly supported > > in most clients (filtering being my main gripe). If only I had the time > > or funding. > > No such thing? This must be very abstract indeed :-) I'm a very abstract kind of guy. :-) But the truth *is* that social networking of all kinds, including Usenet, does require a network, so it doesn't make sense to say something has an "offline" feature. There are just different degrees to which software functions independent of real time/online/synchronous operation. The same is true of people. Abstractly, email isn't *that* much different from instant messaging, yet there is usually different software for each, and many people adopt different habits for both. I prefer email because I don't have to constantly babysit my status or see every conversation start with "are you there?" Similarly, I don't like to babysit a Usenet client regarding its online/offline status. > *shrug* The above close to save example is the only un-Mac-like > behaviour I can think of, unless you count single key shortcuts. I'm thinking more along the line of poorly thought out design choices. Like launching without a window. Like calling its main document type "Settings File". Like making me configure a POP account before anything else. Like forcing me to set a "personality" before even *reading* articles. Like making it non-obvious how to even *set* an NNTP server. That's as far as I went with the clunky UI before I come to the conclusion that it probably isn't worth the effort to use MacSOUP. -- My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, ono.com, and probably your server, too.
From: Richard Maine on 30 Mar 2010 13:12 M-M <nospam.m-m(a)ny.more> wrote: > In article <1jg4v3h.af3w5g1g6cw3wN%nospam(a)see.signature>, > nospam(a)see.signature (Richard Maine) wrote: > > > That being said, as noted, I do use MacSOUP for its good points. > > Can you please elaborate on the good points of MacSoup vs. MT-NW. > > I know about thread trees and that is something I can certainly live > without. > > Anything else? There are probably other minor (to me) ones. I haven't looked at MT-NW in a long time, so I don't recall all the details. I did try them out, but having made my decision, some of the fine points eventually faded from memory. (When you get to my age, you'll understand. :-()) But the thread tree is a major, major one to me. I won't argue if it isn't so to you. Different stroke, etc. -- Richard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience; email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment. domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain
From: Fred Bambrough on 30 Mar 2010 14:36
In message <1jg6cjn.1dbgu3i1nbnddsN%jamiekg(a)wizardling.geek.nz> jamiekg(a)wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote: > Steen <isteen(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg(a)wizardling.geek.nz> wrote: > > > > > Steen <isteen(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Lewis <g.kreme(a)gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: > > > > > > And MTNW supports multiple servers > > > > > > FYI: MacSOUP can as well, it just can't have more than one open at a > > > time. > > > > One thing that's real shame about MTNW is that, if you change the > > default font, it can't handle danish letters. MacSOUP can > > My ideal newsreader: a fusion of MacSOUP's UI with MTNW's features :-) > But since god-awful web forums and social networking sites are > apparently the future of communication (the powers have mercy on us! > *ill look*), I doubt we'll ever see another major Usenet client release > that isn't Usenet for newbies *cough* Unison *hack* [snip] I'm not so familiar with most Mac mail/usenet apps since rejecting all I tried some time ago when I was new to the system. I ended up sticking with the familiar (to me), a development from my previous computer running RISC OS. Messenger Pro is a mail/news client based on Qt and available for Mac OS, Windows and Linux of various flavours. As an 'alien' I wonder how it compares with the stalwarts. http://www.intellegit.com/index.phtml -- Fred |