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From: Todd Allcock on 11 Aug 2010 07:50 At 10 Aug 2010 16:20:19 -0700 ed wrote: > On Aug 10, 3:54 pm, Todd Allcock <eleccon...(a)AnoOspamL.com> wrote: > > At 10 Aug 2010 08:19:38 -0700 John Navas wrote: > > > On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 09:40:02 -0400, in > > > <g5d8o.4362$EF1.2...(a)newsfe14.iad>, Todd Allcock > > > <eleccon...(a)AnoOspamL.com> wrote: > > > > > >... (Keep in > > > >mind pre-iPhone, no one in the US had tied mandatory data plans to > > phone > > > >sales. Even Blackberries- essentially worthless without ubiquitous > > data- > > > >didn't require data plans yet!) > > > > > I seem to recall that AT&T required a higher cost "smartphone" plan for > > > Blackberries and other smartphones. > > > > Yes, _if_ you purchased data. There was no mandatory data add-on, > > however, so users could opt to use their smartphone on WiFi only, or as > > an 'unconnected' PDA with integrated phone. > > > > AT&T started a trend with the iPhone that now makes mandatory data plans > > a de facto standard on all carriers. Verizon has even expanded it to > > certain dumbphones, requiring a $10/month data plan on select feature > > phones. > > verizon, iirc, required a data plan for blackberries before the > iphone- winmo devices on verizon started requiring data around the > time of the iphone. IIRC, BB and WinMo devices required data on VZW at about the same time- November, 2007, a few months after the iPhone launch.
From: John Navas on 11 Aug 2010 10:40 On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:09:40 -0700, in <bjf466hocsar3oktek4rvjk6idn5jr2tpp(a)4ax.com>, John Navas <spamfilter1(a)navasgroup.com> wrote: >On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:03:34 -0700 (PDT), in ><80918529-484e-412a-8740-b259e72b0636(a)z28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, KDT ><scarface_74(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >>On Aug 11, 1:38�am, John Navas <spamfilt...(a)navasgroup.com> wrote: >>> On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:37:22 -0700 (PDT), in >>> <98f976a2-caa9-4cb5-81da-46c6478ae...(a)p7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, KDT >>> >>> <scarface...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >On Aug 11, 12:35�am, John Navas <spamfilt...(a)navasgroup.com> wrote: >>> >> >I have an HTC Hero and an iPod Touch. �The >>> >> >difference in the quality of the top apps aren't even comparable. >>> >>> >> That's not what I'm seeing. �Got any specifics? >>> >>> >Top Paid Games on the Android Market: Arcade and Action >>> >>> >1. Robo Defense >>> >2. Armored Strike Online >>> >3. GameBoid (Gameboy emulator) >>> >4. SnesNoid (SNES Emulator) >>> >5. HomeRun Battle 3D >>> >6. Fishin 2 Go >>> >7. Radiant >>> >8. SpeedX 3D >>> >9. Nesoid (NES Emulator) >>> >10. Baseball Superstars >>> >>> You said "apps". �I don't care about games. >> >>Games are the major profit center and most popular types of >>applications In the grand scheme of things, what *you* care about >>doesn't matter. > >To you. Matters to me and to many others like me. > >>But name a category...... > >Already did. To be fair, there is one (free) iPhone app that I miss on Android: Dragon Dictation Otherwise, here is my list of favorite Android apps. Please let me know if you think there are iPhone apps that: (a) are significantly better than any of these apps, or (b) provide functionality missing in these apps that I would care about. 3CXPhone A Online Radio aContacts Alarm Clock Amazon MP3 AndFTP Antennas Astro File Manager Beer Can Racer Browser (Google Chrome) Calculator Calendar (Google) Compass ConvertPad Currency (XE) Dictionary .com EasyTether eBay Flashlight Flixster Movies Gesture Search Gmail (Google Mail) Google Talk GPS Test Groundhog Newsreader KeePassDroid (passwords) Latitude (Google) Listen (Google) Maps (Google) Messaging Mobile Banking My Account (T-Mobile) My Device (T-Mobile) My Maps Editor MyTracks NetCounter Note Everything OpenTable Opera Mini Pandora PayPal Places (Google) Quickpedia RepliGo Reader (PDF) Shopper (Google) SleepTimer Speed Test Superpages Mobile Swype Tide Prediction Ultrachron (timer) Visual Voicemail (T-Mobile) Voice (Google) Voice Dialer Voice Search WeatherBug Yelp YouTube -- John "Assumption is the mother of all screw ups." [Wethern�s Law of Suspended Judgement]
From: Alan Baker on 11 Aug 2010 11:42 In article <3135f32c-c715-4c69-82f5-6fc664074606(a)u26g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>, KDT <scarface_74(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > On Aug 11, 2:09�am, John Navas <spamfilt...(a)navasgroup.com> wrote: > > On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:03:34 -0700 (PDT), in > > <80918529-484e-412a-8740-b259e72b0...(a)z28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, KDT > > > > > > > > <scarface...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > >On Aug 11, 1:38�am, John Navas <spamfilt...(a)navasgroup.com> wrote: > > >> On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:37:22 -0700 (PDT), in > > >> <98f976a2-caa9-4cb5-81da-46c6478ae...(a)p7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, KDT > > > > >> <scarface...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > >> >On Aug 11, 12:35�am, John Navas <spamfilt...(a)navasgroup.com> wrote: > > >> >> >I have an HTC Hero and an iPod Touch. �The > > >> >> >difference in the quality of the top apps aren't even comparable. > > > > >> >> That's not what I'm seeing. �Got any specifics? > > > > >> >Top Paid Games on the Android Market: Arcade and Action > > > > >> >1. Robo Defense > > >> >2. Armored Strike Online > > >> >3. GameBoid (Gameboy emulator) > > >> >4. SnesNoid (SNES Emulator) > > >> >5. HomeRun Battle 3D > > >> >6. Fishin 2 Go > > >> >7. Radiant > > >> >8. SpeedX 3D > > >> >9. Nesoid (NES Emulator) > > >> >10. Baseball Superstars > > > > >> You said "apps". �I don't care about games. > > > > >Games are the major profit center and most popular types of > > >applications In the grand scheme of things, what *you* care about > > >doesn't matter. > > > > To you. �Matters to me and to many others like me. > > > > >But name a category...... > > > > Already did. > > I missed where you named a *category* in the Android Market..... He's engaging in "No true Scotsman" fallacy. -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia <http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
From: ZnU on 11 Aug 2010 12:00 In article <b2b05f0c-76f3-4579-829c-e4294a9b4841(a)n19g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, ed <news(a)atwistedweb.com> wrote: > On Aug 10, 7:47�pm, ZnU <z...(a)fake.invalid> wrote: > > �KDT <scarface...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > On Aug 10, 6:15�pm, ZnU <z...(a)fake.invalid> wrote: > > > > > > With Sprint as well, for tethering and data-only plans. Sprint > > > > will basically only give you uncapped data to a handset, > > > > because they know it's really hard to actually use it there. > > > > > The 4G tethering plans (HTC Evo and soon Samsung) are unlimited > > > 3G/4G. > > > > Are they? Sprint's standalone "4G/3G Mobile Broadband Connection > > Plan" is unlimited 4G but 3G is capped at 5 GB. > > you're talking about something different. that's not tethering. No, for some reason the tethering plan on the EVO 4G (and as far as I can tell, the EVO 4G _alone_) works differently. > > Which would be fine except that 4G is in so few markets. (Still > > nothing in NYC, for instance.) > > well, mostly true regarding nyc- it's not launched, but the are > actively testing, towers are lit, and users can snag the signal and > use it. not prime time, but for those who do have 4g devices > already, might as well try it out. :D Well, my main interest was in pickup up one of those Clear Spot 4G+ devices for providing Internet to laptops on-set on video shoots. But despite the fact that the thing works on 3G, it seems like they won't sell me one because they don't officially have 4G coverage here. -- "The game of professional investment is intolerably boring and over-exacting to anyone who is entirely exempt from the gambling instinct; whilst he who has it must pay to this propensity the appropriate toll." -- John Maynard Keynes
From: ZnU on 11 Aug 2010 12:30
In article <0f66526d-3853-4d0b-b5ee-b70f1b53183c(a)i4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, ed <news(a)atwistedweb.com> wrote: > On Aug 10, 6:53�pm, ZnU <z...(a)fake.invalid> wrote: > > �ed <n...(a)atwistedweb.com> wrote: > > > On Aug 10, 3:15�pm, ZnU <z...(a)fake.invalid> wrote: > > > > �ed <n...(a)atwistedweb.com> wrote: > > > > > On Aug 10, 9:32�am, ZnU <z...(a)fake.invalid> wrote: > > > <snip> > > > > > > Except that an AT&T smartphone plan with 2 GB of data and unlimited > > > > > > talk/text is going to be on the order of $115. > > > > > > > um, ok. �that doesn't mean you can't get less expensive service. �we > > > > > know att (and verizon) are expensive. �point is, it CAN be comparable > > > > > (maybe even cheaper- can sandman get a 1 device unlimited plan in the > > > > > $40-$50 range?). > > > > > > There's nothing remotely comparable to what he was describing without > > > > spending quite a lot more. And _still_ getting capped data. > > > > More generally, your response seems to be "Yeah, well we have low-end > > > > plans cheaper than Sweden's high-end plans". This is silly. You don't > > > > know what their low-end plans look like. > > > > > - an unlimited voice, text, and data plan is low end to you because > > > it's limited to one device? > > > > You're quibbling. It's not comparable. > > as i said, you can get in the same ballpark. I think you're saying it's "in the same ballpark" because you're treating the multiple device support as sort of trivial. But it's not so trivial when adding it doubles the price of the US plans. > > > > > sprint, in reality, for most people, is (or can be) a *lot* cheaper. > > > > > they have a whole slew of discounts just about anyone can qualify for, > > > > > > Where? > > > > > the ridiculously good discounts are typically employer based- and if > > > you don't care that you don't actually work somewhere, many of them > > > don't actually verify (i'm not sure i have a problem with that, but i > > > go with a 'legit' discount for myself even though i could get a higher > > > discount): > > >http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1757688 > > > people working for larger companies can check directly: > > >http://delivery.sprint.com/m/p/nxt/ais/wdyw.asp?id16=iSearch_MA_07160... > > > eDiscounts&id16=Corporate+discount > > > (my company isn't listed in the above list, but i have a 20% discount) > > > > So by "a whole slew of discounts just about anyone can qualify for" you > > mean "some discounts you can qualify for if you work for the right > > company or you happen read forums that track cellular discounts and > > you're willing to commit a bit of fraud". > > no. at minimum, the credit union link i included is something > EVERYONE can qualify for. weird that you snipped that out. A 10% discount that requires signing up for unrelated financial services. Is this _really_ something you're offering up as a plausible substitute for services that are actually, you know, sensibly priced? > almost > like you are intentionally trying to twist what i said to make a point > which can't stand up to scrutiny when you include all the facts. It's almost like you don't realize that the more whacky schemes you offer up for not getting robbed by US carriers, the more it _validates_ the point that there's something seriously wrong with the wireless industry in in the US. [snip] > > If by "in the ballpark" you mean that for only a little more money, you > > can get a plan that gives you unlimited data on one device and capped > > tethering on another instead of unlimited data on three devices. > > > > And of course that doesn't count the fact that Sandman mentioned there's > > 25% VAT included in that $80. So it's really a _$60_ plan that you'd > > have to pay ~$180/month to not quite match with a major US carrier. > > how did we get from 2 to 3 plans here? Not sure what you mean. We're talking about two plans in the US, to match Sandman's one plan -- a data-only plan for an iPad plus a voice/data plan that allows tethering. I've shown the math on these. Even if you go with Sprint's cheaper unlimited mobile-to-mobile plan + tethering, and AT&T's iPad plan, that only brings down the price to maybe $130 instead of $180. Still more than twice the price. [snip; credit union thing addressed above] > i didn't say to tether if it's not allowed in your plan- you said that > sprint gives you uncapped data to a handset because it's hard to use > the bandwidth- i pointed out that sprint doesn't seem to care, as they > INCLUDE a tethering app on blackberries. If you're acknowledging that it's screwy to compare a plan that allows tethering to one that might merely let you get away with it, then I'm not sure what the argument is here. > > It sucks if you want a specific handset that's not available from a > > given carrier. It sucks if you want to use the same handset in the US > > and Europe and you don't want to use AT&T in the US. > > um, ok? so don't use att in the us? i don't get this complaint. Huh? No, you _have_ to use AT&T in the US if you want to use a single handset in the US and Europe, because AT&T is the only US carrier that actually has a network that's compatible with widely deployed international GSM/3G standards. > > It sucks when your current phone is broken/lost and you can't just > > pop the SIM card into your old phone because it's CDMA or > > something. > > it's not all roses in gsm land like you think- even if you're all > gsm, all the time, you might not be able to do this. when i was on > att, i had to get new sims w/ phones several times because they > wouldn't work on different phones, and when my dad visited last > summer, a att sim card didn't work on his unlocked phone from taiwan. Occasional glitches like this are a very different matter from the massive, systemic failure of US public policy (or, apparently, the market) to encourage standardization here. > > I'm outraged at the fact that a small handful of telecom companies -- > > both with wireless service and with wired broadband -- have been allowed > > to monopolize, overcharge for, underinvest in and limit access to > > infrastructure that will be _the_ key foundation of the next 50 years of > > economic growth. All because they make generous campaign contributions > > to both parties. > > except for all those other cheaper companies that you apparently don't > want to use. Most of which don't actually offer the services being discussed here -- or aren't any cheaper. For instance, Virgin Mobile USA wants $60/month for a 5 GB data plan, same as the major carriers. Tethering? They've never heard of it. Boost Mobile doesn't seem to have data-only plans. Tethering's not supported, but apparently can be made to work -- but the only info I've been able to find says it's unusably slow. MetroPCS is really cheap, but data services don't work in many of their 'extended coverage' areas, which means no e-mail for you unless you're in a major city, and tethering is also officially unsupported, hard to set up, and slow. Clear offers pretty impressive data-only plans, and with the right device they work on 3G or 4G -- but they won't sign you up unless you live in an area with 4G coverage, which means the service isn't accessible to most of the country at the moment. -- "The game of professional investment is intolerably boring and over-exacting to anyone who is entirely exempt from the gambling instinct; whilst he who has it must pay to this propensity the appropriate toll." -- John Maynard Keynes |