Service Pack 3 for Visual Objects 2.8
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From: Marc Verkade [Marti IT] on 5 Sep 2009 08:59 "Infoservice" <pippo(a)aol.it> schreef in bericht news:4aa2258c$0$28501$4fafbaef(a)reader2.news.tin.it... > > [....] >> If you use VO, just buy SP3! If your pride is preventing you for doing >> it, I'll be happy to buy SP3 for you as a gift to show my thanks for what >> you meant for me and our software in the past. Just drop a note! > > Well maybe you should read posts before replying. I start at the top and if I want to say something, i do. I indeed read tthat Erik is still uysing VO, but that does not change anything I said. > >> If you are not using VO anymore, please leave this forum and migrate to >> the Microsoft C# forum please! Your comments here are helping nobody! > > Also your answers do not help the meaningless forum. > I express my opinion, whether you like it or not, and you're not forced to > read or respond. > When and if I decide to leave vo is only my problem, not your concern. I think my comments can be of some value to others: We use every build AND have Bake-it running in Vulcan. It is simply childish7 to keep bashing around wioth no other purpose to discredit somebody or company. > Regards. > > Francesco Leo > Regards back, Marc >> My 2 cents... >> >> -- >> Grtz, Marc >> >> >> "E�!k \/!sser" <nospam(a)nospam.com> schreef in bericht >> news:7ga3o0F2oupbtU1(a)mid.individual.net... >>> Hi Ginny, >>> >>> with all respect: >>>> 1. I'm pretty sure that Grafx announced that sp 2 would be the last >>>> free upgrade for VO. at the time sp 2 was released. Was sp 2 perfect? >>>> No. Will sp 3 be perfect? No. That's life. >>> >>> SP2 made clear the VOPS is not even close to a beta forum. After Geoff >>> has been wiped out there, there was (and probebly still is) nobody who >>> installs the new releases and tests them with real-life apps right away. >>> That lead to a buggy SP2 release with several new introduced bugs..It >>> just wasn't tested in real life. >>> Shortly after the release of SP2 Robert announce a quick and free patch >>> for the new introduced shortcomings. >>> Never seen that ( outside the VOPS forum) >>> >>>> 2. I think $99 for VO only is pretty reasonable. I guess you don't but >>>> I think most people would. As I understand it the $99 sp 3 version is >>>> the latest and greatest available on VOPS and represents a year's work. >>> >>> A year's work? If it takes a year between a SP2 and a SP3 release, that >>> does not mean it was a year's work. If you look at the what's new list, >>> you must agree this could be done within a month or so. >>> Brian is businessman enough to not pay Robert for a year for only >>> producing this release. >>> On the other hand, this would explain the little progress on Vulcan... >>> <g> >>> >>> I would be happy to pay USD 100 for a yearly update/fixes. But as Robert >>> wrote in another posting, VO is (in my own words) like Michael Jackson: >>> dead and waiting to be barried. So if Grafx is not going to support the >>> product any longer, why should we support Grafx? >>> If VO is no longer maintainted, CA can reclaim it. That would be the >>> only reason I can think of for Grafx to come with a 'fake' SP so once in >>> a while. >>> >>> >>> Erik >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Ginny Caughey >>>> www.wasteworks.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "Infoservice" <pippo(a)aol.it> wrote in message >>>> news:4a9fca4b$0$43592$4fafbaef(a)reader1.news.tin.it... >>>>> Brian, >>>>> sure, and all were hoping for a VOPS only for VO at reasonable prices, >>>>> but we have not had. >>>>> Many people would buy and the development would be ensured. >>>>> But today, with. NET on doors, I do believe that Vulcan will still >>>>> have fewer users of Vo. >>>>> The question, limited to of SP3, is not in money but in a way. >>>>> Not to maintain that promise does not help the reputation of a company >>>>> like Grafx >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> Francesco >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Geoff Schaller" <geoffx(a)softxwareobjectives.com.au> ha scritto nel >>>>> messaggio news:PPBnm.15511$ze1.14271(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au... >>>>>> Francesco. >>>>>> >>>>>> Whilst I sympathise with your sentiment, the reality is that the VO >>>>>> community is very small. The product contains issues and problems >>>>>> well before GrafX took it over and whilst I agree that they should >>>>>> provide patches for the new bugs they introduce, we have to support >>>>>> the product somehow. This is perhaps the only way we will get >>>>>> anything because I am certain VO is no longer a money spinner for >>>>>> anyone. >>>>>> >>>>>> Although I know there are literally 1000's of VO apps in operation >>>>>> out there, active supporting developers would now number less than >>>>>> 600 world-wide and the visible number of these is less than 200. It >>>>>> is a very small user base to support. >>>>>> >>>>>> Geoff >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Infoservice" <pippo(a)aol.it> wrote in message >>>>>> news:4a9e5005$0$34620$4fafbaef(a)reader4.news.tin.it: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Brian, >>>>>>> why paying for service packs? I shall correct my program's bug free! >>>>>>> Is >>>>>>> shameful! >>>>>>> My idea of leaving VO is growing! >>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>> Francesco Leo >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >> >
From: E®!k /!sser on 5 Sep 2009 09:52 Hi Marc, > Ehh, we do test real-life apps with every build of VO! > Sure we find issues, but most of them just annoying and no showstoppers. > After our apps run fine and after initial install of the VOPS build, > compiling and testing, most of the VOPS builds made it to our customers! OK. Now what I do not understand is this. If you and Willie and Wolfgang and Meinhard and all the other people Robert knows about are testing every build with real-life apps, how is it possible that the public SP2 release has many obvious bugs discovered very shortly after the release? Do not get me wrong, I do not doubt what you and the others wrote, I just wonder what went wrong and what has been done to prevent this going wrong again with SP3. > Last week we compiled Bake-it in Vulcan. Offcoarse some things must be > done but it ran, inclusing most 3rd party stuff like bBrowser, Fab, SEMenu > etc.. Since Bake-it is a 350+ DBF's and 1000+ window app, I never imagined > that that was possible at all. We are not there yet, but Bake-it running > as a Vulcan app will be the starting point for a full migration to .Net in > the coming months. We now have the possibility to slowly inlcude the > numerous .Net controls and make Bake-it ready for the next years to come > and stay competitive. Great! Good for you! Just wondering as I have not seen any recent Vulcan releases, what .Net controls do you have in mind? Can you put a .Net control on a datawindow? And do you have a visual editor to do that? > I do not understand why you are bashing like this here. It must be > frustration and I do not think ventilating frustration this way is the way > to go. We all know that VO is not a major language and we all know that it > is difficult to make money with a development language, but Grafx is > trying to serve the VO community and keep the development tool and > language alive for the people like us which make their money with it. And > I am thankfull for that! People are different and Brian and I are very > different and I would have done things very different than he, but then, I > was not brave enough to become the owner of VO! This is the way he goes > and I respect him for taking this responsibility! > For me Grafx has shown the last few years that they listen to customers > and if there are major issues and showstoppers, they are helping and fix > them. This has been different in the past, but this is exactly where VOPS > shows it's value since it exists! 99$ is about 70 euro's! Only one diner > at a mediocre restaurant. Software is never perfect and yes, SP3 is > containing bugs for sure, but then, so does your software and mine! I do not know about you, but if I release an update and the customers suffers from bugs, I fix them right away. As you know I have been a VOPS member for three years so I do know what I am talking about if I mention lies, broken promises, half truths, manipulations etc. > I really don't care if VO is dead or not, but I do care if it is working > or not! And it is working very well the last say 10 builds. > > If you use VO, just buy SP3! If your pride is preventing you for doing it, > I'll be happy to buy SP3 for you as a gift to show my thanks for what you > meant for me and our software in the past. Just drop a note! It has got little to do with pride, but I try to learn from mistakes I made in the past. SP2 was a disaster for me. Lost a lot of time with it and a promised quick patch never appeared. This caused me to do a downgrade and it does not make a good impression towards customers if they see the new update has DLL's with earlier dates. Now we need a SP3 to get SP2 working, so what garanties do I get I will not need to wait another year for SP4 to get SP3 working? We have been trapped more than once, and I try to prevent getting trapped again. So even if I get it for free, I would not use it. At least not until all signs are green in this forum. Erik
From: Willie Moore on 5 Sep 2009 11:19 Erik, I have production apps written in Vulcan.net for the win platform and also a web site with aspx files that call my Vulcan assemblies. There are Visual editors in VS for datawindow, dbserver, fieldspec, and menu I believe. Most of my work is with WinForms but I have used the visual windows and they do work. You can mix dotnet winforms and data/dialog windows in the same app but I have not seen winform controls added to a datawindow yet. Intellisence improves in each build. Regards, Willie __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4398 (20090905) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
From: Wolfgang Riedmann on 5 Sep 2009 16:29 Hi Erik, > If you and Willie and Wolfgang and Meinhard and all the other people Robert > knows about are testing every build with real-life apps, how is it possible > that the public SP2 release has many obvious bugs discovered very shortly > after the release? We use VO in our way. Personally I don't use the DBEditor at all, the DataBrowser was abbandoned when GridPro was first published. We test VO with _our_ apps, not with samples or other ones. Nearly every VOPS build is firstly used by myself, and then distributed to customers at the next update. And, as Marc said, I have found no showstoppers or other errors, but most of my apps are several years old and don't use the VO classes directly, but my own framework (originally developed with 1.0b). So it is logical that a public build shows errors that inthe VOPS build don't show up. And we have other things to do than hunt bugs - we check if our apps work. Wolfgang
From: Johan Nel on 6 Sep 2009 04:18
Hi Erik, As Wolfgang said. I test new builds with my own apps and if it is working then fine, new build is stable <FULLSTOP> However, one thing that also need to be taken into consideration, most people on VOPS are moving on to Vulcan and C# and .NET, except for maintaining existing VO apps. However, my philosophy always was, if it is working why break it if the current version provide all you need? I for one, have only one application still running in VO, the rest are all converted to Vulcan. When I made the decision I based it on the following: 3rd party libraries: bBrowser - The datagridview provided most of what I used bBrowser for. bArrayServer - Again the datatable in .NET provides so much more without the 64k max record limit. G4VO - ZedGraph provided all that I needed. RP 2.14 - All my reports are Hand coded datadriven reports. I just used the PrintDocument class to redirect my own wrapper report class to output to PrintDocument. FabPaint - The .NET Image manipulation provided all I needed. VO specifics: CodeBlocks - Slower in .NET than in VO, but I can call any .NET Class/Static from a codeblock now. Again, I reconsidered the use of [macro compiled] codeblocks and I found that in 99% of cases I could substitute with Expressions in my code or replace with internal .NET features. Picture property - Having troubles with "999.99" in WinForm, substitute the SLE with a NumericUpDown control. MaskedTextBox and UserControl provided all I needed to move away from DataWindow/DataDialogs. cHTTP,cFTP *Mail - Again there are .NET classes for all of these. Business logic: Again, all of my business logic moved 100% over to Vulcan with very little change in code. Following changes made however for obvious speed improvements: Array - Replace with ArrayList, List<T>, SortedList<Key, Value> TextBox classes - Substitute with .NET MessageBox. Other points that helped me: RRR - Reliable, Robust, Reusable. This point was in many of my Clipper Technicons drilled in and I am glad that I took some of it up in my coding style. DataDriven - Again, based on the RRR all of my forms / classes are based on some form of base class "MyClassBase" that all similar classes inherit from. Change one class from VO Windows base class to WinForm and all forms immediately have the functionality converted. In summary, yes I know many of you are complaining about VO and the progress made. However I just wonder how much further, not that I imply it is not yet feature rich, would Vulcan have been if it was not for the effort gone into maintaining VO... Just my 2cents. Regards, Johan Nel Pretoria, South Africa. Wolfgang Riedmann wrote: >> If you and Willie and Wolfgang and Meinhard and all the other people Robert >> knows about are testing every build with real-life apps, how is it possible >> that the public SP2 release has many obvious bugs discovered very shortly >> after the release? > So it is logical that a public build shows errors that in the VOPS build don't > show up. > And we have other things to do than hunt bugs - we check if our apps work. |