Vulcan .Net and VO 2.8
in [Visual Objects]
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From: Graham McKechnie on 13 Sep 2006 17:39 Erik, > I do not have a problem at all with people moving to any other language. > I do have a problem with someone who says goodbye to VO but not to this > newsgroup and who's contributions are negative ones. And what is wrong with the expression of a negative view - well negative to your view of things. I'm sure the readers here are old enough to make up their own minds. Do you only look at problems from one direction? > If you want support for my products, yo need to subscribe to a > supportprogram too. Yes I commented in another response about your support program. I'm just glad I don't have to pay you for your bug fixes. However, how you choose to run your company's support program is really irrelevent to this discussion. > If you want to program in Vulcan, you can get an subscription wth beta > releases or you will have to wait until it comes out. > I really can't imagine why you would have a problem with that. Oh I think there are plenty of people here who have a problem with that. You have to belong to an exclusive club to qualify. There are certain rules within this club, break a precious rule and you get turfed out. For the ones who didn't join well then they wait and they wait and they wait... > You cannot say this for all big IT departments. The VOPS holds > softwarehouses with over 10 VO developers. I don't follow what you are attempting to say here. I doubt that most would consider a 10 VO developer shop a big IT department. I would maintain that any head of IT would laugh at you and boot you out the door, if you presented with the idea of having to join a some club thingy to get a product. I certainly wouldn't be game to try and put that argument to anyone and I'd bet you wouldn't either. >> 4. You guys persisting with this strategy in my opinion have lost your >> marbles. > Now that is a very good argument! I take it that you are agreeing that you have lost your marbles - or would you like to rephrase that. >> 3. It was therefore an ill thought out marking move on Grafx's part. > Nope, it is a succes, ask any other VOPS member. Oh sure, how naive do you think the people are here. Of course anyone who has been dumb enough to join is not likely to admit their mistake. > In that case you must be the emperor of false and misleading statements. Quote one!! Graham "E?!k V!sser" <burod000_notthis_(a)planet.nl> wrote in message news:4mr3m5F7etjuU1(a)individual.net... > Graham, > >> I'm not sure what you are trying to prove by attempting to call me a >> troll. You seem to have a fixation about people who are here that are ex >> VO'ers. I've never tried to hide the fact that I bolted from the VO >> stable the moment .Net and C# arrived some years back. At the time VO >> could not do what I needed to do, so I didn't have much choice. 3-4 years >> down the track, VO still can't do what I need to do, so I feel I was >> entirely justified in making that decision. I really can't imagine why >> you would have a problem with that. > > I do not have a problem at all with people moving to any other language. > I do have a problem with someone who says goodbye to VO but not to this > newsgroup and who's contributions are negative ones. > >> >> I presented you with a couple of simple arguments. >> >> 1. A VOer needs to join Brian's exclusive club thingy, if he wants to >> keep programming in VO or Vulcan. There just isn't any realistic support, >> if you don't do this. See Carlos's comments here > > If you want support for my products, yo need to subscribe to a > supportprogram too. > If you want to program in Vulcan, you can get an subscription wth beta > releases or you will have to wait until it comes out. > I really can't imagine why you would have a problem with that. > . >> 2. The club idea just does not wash with any big IT departments. > You cannot say this for all big IT departments. The VOPS holds > softwarehouses with over 10 VO developers. > >> 3. It was therefore an ill thought out marking move on Grafx's part. > Nope, it is a succes, ask any other VOPS member. > >> 4. You guys persisting with this strategy in my opinion have lost your >> marbles. > Now that is a very good argument! > >> >> If you don't agree with any of the above, then by all means present your >> counter arguments if you wish to participate. If you are going to >> participate then please stick to the facts and leave the emotion out of >> it. > Leave emotion out of it? Are you sure you wrote yor own arguments? > >> Last time you engaged me, you went off on a tangent for a couple of days >> about some VO trivia question about release dates, which only proved that >> you are indeed the "king" of VO trivia questions. > In that case you must be the emperor of false and misleading statements. > > > >> >> Graham >> >> "E?!k V!sser" <burod000_notthis_(a)planet.nl> wrote in message >> news:4mqbkpF78iklU1(a)individual.net... >>> Markus, >>>> >>>> Graham, >>>> >>>> insane? >>> >>> I rather be called insane by Graham than by someone with a healthy mind. >>> Do not waste to much time on Graham, as he left VO years ago and is only >>> here to troll. >>> >>> >>> Erik >>> >> >> > >
From: Graham McKechnie on 13 Sep 2006 17:47 Erik, > Sure, it is the Dutch VO usergroup. (And Delphy, VB.NET, C#, Fox and DNN) > We do this things for our members and as long as we have members who want > tocome to these conferences, we will continue to have them. > And even if you are not a member, you can join the conference. > > Nothing wrong with this I think. No Erik, nothing wrong with having a Dutch VO usergroup. I don't believe I was being critical of the user group. I was just stating how rediculous your suggestion was to attend that meeting just to listen to Robert's "VO show and tell", when the same info could be published on a web site Graham "E?!k V!sser" <burod000_notthis_(a)planet.nl> wrote in message news:4mr9q3F7erevU1(a)individual.net... > > "Graham McKechnie" <gmknospam(a)bigpond.net.au> schreef in bericht > news:4mZNg.28363$rP1.17904(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au... >> Erik, >> >>> You should come to the SDE www.sdn.nl/sde (if you have not registrated >>> yet) where Robert will tell and show us what will be inside. >> >> Another one of your great ideas. You are really on a roll today. >> >> Drop everything, take a week off, spend $1,000's and fly to the other >> side of the world, for Robert's "VO show and tell". >> >> This is really some exclusive club.. > . > Sure, it is the Dutch VO usergroup. (And Delphy, VB.NET, C#, Fox and DNN) > We do this things for our members and as long as we have members who want > tocome to these conferences, we will continue to have them. > And even if you are not a member, you can join the conference. > > Nothing wrong with this I think. > > Erik > > > >> >> Graham >> >> "E?!k V!sser" <burod000_notthis_(a)planet.nl> wrote in message >> news:4mqr02F7fq6vU1(a)individual.net... >>> Hi Jack, >>> The featurelist and other details (costs etc) of VO 2.8 are not >>> published yet. >>> You should come to the SDE www.sdn.nl/sde (if you have not registrated >>> yet) where Robert will tell and show us what will be inside. >>> >>> cu in Ede? >>> >>> Erik >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "Jack Konings" <jack_dot_konings(a)tiscali.nl> schreef in bericht >>> news:45083382$0$716$5fc3050(a)dreader2.news.tiscali.nl... >>>> What i'd really want to know (2.8) : >>>> >>>> 1. What are the differences to VO27A (new things, bugs fixed etc..); >>>> because then i can motivate to my boss why i would like to purchase it >>>> 2. What the upgrade will cost; because that's what my boss wants to >>>> know >>>> 3. When it will be available; so i can prepare/mould him until >>>> availability >>>> >>>> Greetings, >>>> >>>> Jack >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> <djmadej1(a)poczta.onet.pl> wrote in message >>>> news:1158128053.941970.258410(a)i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Do you know, when will be Vulcan and new version of VO released? >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> Jacek >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >
From: "Marshall Rhinehart" mrhp on 13 Sep 2006 17:49 > 1. A VOer needs to join Brian's exclusive club thingy, if he wants to keep > programming in VO or Vulcan. There just isn't any realistic support, if > you don't do this. See Carlos's comments here. > 2. The club idea just does not wash with any big IT departments. > 3. It was therefore an ill thought out marking move on Grafx's part. > 4. You guys persisting with this strategy in my opinion have lost your > marbles. Had the 'club' been used as a six month to a year 'bridge' to a better product (using the subscription for funding..)... you might be able to make an argument for it. It's been far too long for a user to wait. One wonders if those that have paid will get to be the first to hear when things are officially shut down. A little irony in that. I guess as long as people are willing to subscribe....why kill a good thing? Marshall
From: Geoff Schaller on 13 Sep 2006 18:21 Markus, I think the simple answer to this is that Vulcan is not required to secure your VO code into the future. Even VO 2.8 is not offering anything substantially new that helps develop better apps. At best it has a new editor but that does not create better code. Nor does 2.8 offer any of the long over-due fixes to the GUI class libraries VO has needed since GrafX took over. Vulcan also does not offer anything new that C# or VB.net does not already provide and it is easy to integrate Dot Net with VO as conference after conference has demonstrated. Vulcan doesn't even provide a useful migration strategy for large code bases. And yes, VOPS is an exclusive club because only a fraction of the VO community belongs to it and only a fraction of that participate. But what it does do is draw focus away from the mainstream and as we have seen, stalled fixes and updates to the regular VO community for almost 2 years. Perhaps 'insane' is over the top but surely you can understand the sentiment behind the remark. VOPS certainly hasn't been a worthwhile investment on any count. Geoff > Graham, > > insane? > > what are the guys, who invest many years of VO-Programming to earn one's living, > and don't take part on VOPS to secure their own work? > > I look forward to VO 2.8 and Vulcan! > > This people protect all our work in VO - I don't know, whether we get a new > VO 2.8 _and!_ VO.NET alias Vulcan without VOPS. > > VOPS is not a exclusive club, it is a club to help VO and all guys who work with it <g> > > If someone did not order VOPS, because it is too expensive for him, then it is OK > > To say the VOPS-members are insane, - sorry, that go too far... > > (also sorry for my awful english...) > Regards, > Markus Feser
From: Geoff Schaller on 13 Sep 2006 18:24
<rofl> ...not even close! "richard.townsendrose(a)googlemail.com" <richard.townsendrose(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message news:1158163003.072704.20990(a)b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: > Hi all > > Well I guess that VO2.8 is approaching the "pretty well fixed > everything" time like dbaseIII+Ver 1.1 and Clipper 5.0a did in their > time. > > Then it becomes just a tool with another 10 years of life to go. May be > I will retire when it does ! > > It does all I need - and more. > > But I await it, and look forward to it. > > Regards > > Richard |