Vulcan .Net and VO 2.8
in [Visual Objects]
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From: Carlos Rocha on 19 Sep 2006 19:27 Looks clear to me. I would like to "hear" something from inside tho. Can someone post something about the actual state? What can we expect?
From: mullet on 19 Sep 2006 22:07 No. sorry. That is against the dotrines of the "exclusive little club thingy". The leaders of the "exclusive little club thingy" would have to punish anyone who published the hidden knowledge of the "exclusive little club thingy". What's the point of paying to be a member of the "exclusive little club thingy" if everyone knows whats happenning in the "exclusive little club thingy" even if they haven't paid to be in the "exclusive little club thingy" ? "Carlos Rocha" <carlos.delete.this(a)net-disk.com> wrote in message news:1158708454.671907.268420(a)e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com... > Looks clear to me. I would like to "hear" something from inside tho. > Can someone post something about the actual state? What can we expect? >
From: Geoff Schaller on 19 Sep 2006 23:59 What is curious is that without paying one extra cent to Microsoft, we report bugs in MS Office 2007 and get direct feedback on what they are, their status and when they will be addressed. Not only that, in serious ones, we actually get contacted by Microsoft and sometimes are given a new dll to try out. More curious still, I can look up the reported bug list and the fix list to see if they know about my problem or have fixed it. This works! ...and it is the free beta program, even though there are formal support programs and formal beta programs. What is impressive is that we don't count ourselves as a large company yet we get this kind of direct support from a multi-national. Focus back on VO where the user community is quite finite and tiny, the VOPS community tinier and an even tinier number of product developers (I'm being kind). One would have thought it rather easy to provide this kind of beta and support plan and still leave room for a premium access plan. It wouldn't be dealing with millions of users like MS but when you only have a dozen or so dedicated testers for your beta products you run the risk of seriously under-testing the new product. It is one of the reasons why every substantial new VO build is followed up by a flurry fix patches. Just count the number of times Brian re-releases the installers <bg>. What is not curious is that companies like Microsoft are actually proud to announce their innovations and relentlessly advertise their future feature sets, actively seeking end user input and feedback. It is curious how GrafX feels the need to reverse this proven approach to do just the opposite... "mullet" <mullet(a)yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:Jn1Qg.569960$IK3.333874(a)pd7tw1no: > No. sorry. That is against the dotrines of the "exclusive little club > thingy". The leaders of the "exclusive little club thingy" would have to > punish anyone who published the hidden knowledge of the "exclusive little > club thingy". What's the point of paying to be a member of the "exclusive > little club thingy" if everyone knows whats happenning in the "exclusive > little club thingy" even if they haven't paid to be in the "exclusive little > club thingy" ? > > "Carlos Rocha" <carlos.delete.this(a)net-disk.com> wrote in message > news:1158708454.671907.268420(a)e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com... > > > Looks clear to me. I would like to "hear" something from inside tho. > > Can someone post something about the actual state? What can we expect? > >
From: hei_mue on 20 Sep 2006 03:54 Ginny Caughey schrieb: > I understand Heiko's frustration that Vulcan is taking so long, but I You misunderstud me - it isnt a frustration. I'm happy with C# now - for my legacy applications I use VO2.7 and I can perfect live with this constellation. My intention was to warn other people to set on GrafX for their long time business strategy. About VULCAN: GrafX tells that their goal is a maximum on compatibility to VO in the language. I think this promise awakes in peoples mind a hope that they can convert to .NET with a simple recompilation. I think thats simple not true. A window that converts from VO via VULCAN to ..NET isnt really a .NET-Form. From what I know GrafX do this parts of converting by calling the Win32-API Functions like in VO. But you dont have after this a really .NET Form that can be designed in Visual Studio Window-Editor. The SingleLine-Edits are NOT Windows.Form.Textboxes, your custom controls are not inherited from Windows.Form.Control and so on. As I understoud the things you cant simple add a new control to your Dialogs but you must complete recreate this window before you can edit it with the .NET Form-Editor. With knowing this the only code that you really can bring to .NET by recompiling with VULCAN (if ever) are your non-GUI Classes. But converting such classes to .NET/C# isnt really a big thing. In case that the most of the readers here doesnt really know C# I will give a smale sample: VO: CLASS myCLASS PRIVATE _sText1 AS STRING PRIVATE _lBool1 AS LOGIC PRIVATE _iInt1 AS DWORD METHOD Init(sText, lBool, iInt) CLASS myCLASS SELF:_sText1:=sText SELF:_lBool1:=lBool SELF:_iInt1:=iInt RETURN ACCESS Text CLASS myCLASS RETURN SELF:_sText1 ASSIGN Text(cVal) CLASS myCLASS SELF:_sText1:=cVal RETURN METHOD DoIt() CLASS myCLASS LOCAL iCount, iMax AS DWORD LOCAL sResult AS STRING sResult:="" iMax:=SLen(SELF:_sText1) FOR iCount:=1 UPTO iMax sResult:=Upper(Substr3(SELF:_sText,iCount,1)) NEXT RETURN sResult C#: public class myCLASS { private string _sText1; private bool _lBool1; private int _iInt1; // Constructor (INIT) public myCLASS(string sText, bool lBool, int iInt) { this._sText1=sText; this._lBool1=lBool; this._iInt1=iInt; } // ACCESS and ASSIGN public string Text { get { return this._sText1; } set { this._sText1=value; } } // METHOD public string DoIt() { string sResult=""; int iMax; iMax=this._sText1.Length; for (int iCount=0;iCount<iMax;++iCount) { sResult+=this._sText1.Substring(iCount,1).ToUpper(); } return sResult; } The only big advantage of VULCAN is the VulcanDB-Part. But for accessing DBF I use ADS with my own C# Classes around the ADS-API. But of course you can also use Components like this http://www.vistasoftware.com/apollo_net.asp. I think if you really will profit from all the .NET capabilities you must rewrite your Apps and Libs. It is like the switch from Clipper to VO - theoretical possible without rewriting many of your code but not really recommended. Heiko Mueller
From: hei_mue on 20 Sep 2006 04:15
D.J.W. van Kooten schrieb: > It seems that quite some Vulcan code does have the VO syntax and VB is > not exactly syntax compatible with C#. The difference thus is that it > would technically be impossible to share VB/C# code contrary to > sharing Vulcan/VO code. Under .NET this isnt relevant - take a look at http://www.aisto.com/roeder/dotnet/ (Reflector). With a simple Click you can convert Code from VB.NET to C#. Of course you can view VULCAN Code as C#... > Assuming you HAVE C# code - I don't. I consider it very improductive > to learn a completely different language for new code if I don't have > to. Let alone to convert existing code to it. It would take me at > least days to basically learn the language and years to know the > tricks and special things of the language. Independent of the question > if I trust Grafx to maintain VO and/or Vulcan sufficiently or not , > any change will take away time of where I make my money with. This is the big mistake - you think you can write .NET Apps without learning - thats NOT true. You have to learn many new things about the ..NET-Framework. There are tons of new Classes and technics that you need to write .NET-Apps never mind with which language you do the job. >From what I see the fact is VULCAN-Classes are NOT wrapper around the ..NET-Classes they exist more beside the corresponding .NET Classes. That will - IMHO - create many new problems if you will share/use Classes between different languages. To learn the new syntax of C# are nothing against the learning / study of the new Framework... > A few month ago I had to refresh my old Pascal knowledge to add to an > InnoSetup script - this is based on Pascal. It took me at least 3 > times as long as when it would have been xBase code. Sometime things changing and you need to learn this new things (remember the switch from CLIPPER to VO) - better you accept this fact - otherwise you are in the wrong business... Heiko Mueller |