lilo removal in squeeze (or, "please test grub2")
in [Debian]
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From: Frank Van Damme on 28 May 2010 10:40 2010/5/23 <briand(a)aracnet.com>: > Furthermore asking people to test it is not exactly a minor request. > When it doesn't work you get to break out the rescue disk and go > through some relatively painful work to recover. Â I know, because I had > to do it. Make it less painful: keep your old menu.lst and use super grub disk. It'll find it in seconds. Barely slower than booting with a non-broken bootloader ;-) > I for one would really appreciate it if the lilo maintainer could write > just a little bit about the scope of work required to fix it (to this > list). It would be a real shame if lilo goes away. Is it, by the way, true that using LILO allows you to put /boot on LVM? -- Frank Van Damme A: Because it destroys the flow of the conversation. Q: Why is it bad? A: No, it's bad. Q: Should I top post in replies to mailing lists or on Usenet? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTimGfHX_LQgkTGwSpo0D0t5Cr9m2lV57pdH_SYYM(a)mail.gmail.com
From: Stephen Powell on 28 May 2010 10:50 On Tue, 25 May 2010 13:12:27 -0400 (EDT), Stephen Powell wrote: > Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: >> No software is entirely without cost ... >> volunteers work on whatever they like ... >> your specific requirements may differ from their goals ... >> volunteers are rarely concerned with "market share" ... > > All excellent points, Boyd. Fortunately in this case, extlinux appears > to be a viable solution. I'll soon know ... Unfortunately, logical backups of a Linux machine using the extlinux boot loader do not work with our backup/restore software. The master boot record and partition boot sector are restored correctly, but /boot/extlinux/extlinux.sys will probably not be restored to the exact same sectors from which it was backed up, and the restore software has no special logic to remedy that situation. Therefore, after restore, the machine will not boot. It *does* recognize lilo and has special logic to patch lilo after the restore so that the machine will boot. The problem can be circumvented by taking an image backup instead of a logical backup, but that gets into special backup requirements. Until we get newer backup software I must either use lilo or ask for special backup procedures for my Linux servers. I choose the former. Logical (file by file) backups have many advantages, one of which is to avoid giving the Windows advocates an excuse to oppose further deployment of Linux servers. -- .''`. Stephen Powell : :' : `. `'` `- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1739612780.129666.1275057918173.JavaMail.root(a)md01.wow.synacor.com
From: Roger Leigh on 28 May 2010 11:00 On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 04:34:06PM +0200, Frank Van Damme wrote: > > > I for one would really appreciate it if the lilo maintainer could write > > just a little bit about the scope of work required to fix it (to this > > list). It would be a real shame if lilo goes away. > > Is it, by the way, true that using LILO allows you to put /boot on LVM? It's possible for a simple LVM setup. However, it's also very easy to get an unbootable system! Since it's just storing blocklists, any LVM changes have the potential to screw up LILO, and (from experience) it's actually quite hard to rescue once broken (due to difficulties getting the LVM/RAID up and mounted and then running lilo in a chroot; I had issues with the device numbers being wrong). Nowadays I just use a separate /boot and then use GRUB2, and it all works nicely. Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `- GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail.
From: Josselin Mouette on 28 May 2010 12:20 Le vendredi 28 mai 2010 à 10:45 -0400, Stephen Powell a écrit : > Unfortunately, logical backups of a Linux machine using the extlinux > boot loader do not work with our backup/restore software. The master boot > record and partition boot sector are restored correctly, but > /boot/extlinux/extlinux.sys will probably not be restored to the exact > same sectors from which it was backed up, and the restore software has no > special logic to remedy that situation. Therefore, after restore, the > machine will not boot. It *does* recognize lilo and has special logic > to patch lilo after the restore so that the machine will boot. We have understood that your backup software is broken. Itâs not the only one. Thereâs nothing we can do to fix broken, proprietary backup software. If you want to become the new upstream for lilo because you need to cope with broken backup software, please go ahead; Iâm sure the effort will be welcome. If not, I think you have made your point by now. As a personal advice, I would recommend you to stop bothering with that broken backup software, it doesnât seem good for your health. Set up a CIFS share on a backed-up Windows server, copy your data there using one of the numerous solutions in Debian, and get done with it. Or just state that you canât backup modern Linux servers with it, and let them struggle with Windows servers if they really decide to use this instead. Cheers, -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' âA handshake with whitnesses is the same `- as a signed contact.â -- Jörg Schilling -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-REQUEST(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1275063080.4783.14.camel(a)meh
From: Roger Leigh on 28 May 2010 12:40
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 06:11:20PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: > Le vendredi 28 mai 2010 à 10:45 -0400, Stephen Powell a écrit : > > Unfortunately, logical backups of a Linux machine using the extlinux > > boot loader do not work with our backup/restore software. The master boot > > record and partition boot sector are restored correctly, but > > /boot/extlinux/extlinux.sys will probably not be restored to the exact > > same sectors from which it was backed up, and the restore software has no > > special logic to remedy that situation. Therefore, after restore, the > > machine will not boot. It *does* recognize lilo and has special logic > > to patch lilo after the restore so that the machine will boot. > > We have understood that your backup software is broken. Itâs not the > only one. Thereâs nothing we can do to fix broken, proprietary backup > software. One obvious solution not already mentioned is to back up the bootloader *in Linux* as a normal file, so the backup software can then just back it up like any other file. It's a simple enough workaround to the deficiencies in your backup software. dd if=dev/hda of=/boot/bootsector-backup bs=512 count=nnn Stick it in as a daily cron job and you're done. When it comes to restoring, you can just dd it back and you're in business. > As a personal advice, I would recommend you to stop bothering with that > broken backup software, it doesnât seem good for your health. Set up a > CIFS share on a backed-up Windows server, copy your data there using one > of the numerous solutions in Debian, and get done with it. Or just state > that you canât backup modern Linux servers with it, and let them > struggle with Windows servers if they really decide to use this instead. Very true. The same software is likely also broken with GPT partition tables, BSD partition tables etc., so it's not like it's just grub at fault here! For the most part, grub is a vast improvement over LILO, and except for the odd corner cases which grub doesn't cover, grub is a much better choice if you have the choice. Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `- GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail. |