Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al) on 29 Jun 2008 23:55 On Jun 30, 12:10 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > On Jun 29, 12:04 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > On Jun 28, 6:36 am, mizlee <miz...(a)aol.com> wrote: > > >> On Jun 27, 9:47 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > >>> On Jun 27, 9:04 am, mizlee <miz...(a)aol.com> wrote: > > >>>> On Jun 27, 8:37�am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > >>>>> Teachers hired to teach in public schools are trained in college to > > >>>>> teach atheism. > > >>>>> Robert B. Winn- > > >>>> As a former public school teacher, I am in a really, really good > > >>>> position to tell you that you are an absolute, bald-faced liar, in > > >>>> addition to being a barking mad looney. Seriously, dude, you need > > >>>> professional help. > > >>> So how did you get a teaching job if you did not go to college? > > >>> Robert B. Winn > > >> As a matter of fact, you lying whackjob, I have gone to three > > >> colleges, and have degrees from all of them. And you are still an > > >> absolute, bald-faced-liar, in addition to being a barking mad looney.. > > >> But, by all means, keep posting. The more that rational people are > > >> exposed to those of your deluded ilk, the more they are turned off by > > >> religion. It really is no coincidence, you know, that young people in > > >> particular are rejecting religion in droves, especially christianity, > > >> and over all, people who self describe themselves as having no > > >> religion have doubled in the last ten years. The PEW Forum puts the > > >> unaffiliated at 16%, the largest since the American Revolution; they > > >> are increasingly disgusted with the baggage of religion - intolerance, > > >> bigotry, hatred, self-righteousness, anti-abortion, anti stem-cell > > >> research, anti-everything-progressive - and are now the second-largest > > >> "religious" group in the country. Keep it up, you are a perfect > > >> representative of everything that is evil in this country.- Hide quoted text - > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > > Well, but I do not deny the existence of Hezekiah's tunnel the way > > > atheists do. > > > Did you know that the Bible prophesies that in the last days men would > > > be lovers of themselves more than lovers of God? > > > No, but you're happy to ignore London in the South of England. Weird, > > that! The Bible says lots of stuff. Like bats are birds.- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Well, I do not completely ignore London. I have a friend who is from > London. > Robert B. Winn And you still claim it doesn't exist. I suppose those millions of Londoners are just walking through solid stone? Why do you not accept the London exists? Al
From: Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al) on 30 Jun 2008 00:30 On Jun 30, 8:19 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > On Jun 29, 12:11�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > Smiler wrote: > > > "BuddyThunder" <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in message > > >news:4866a92b$1(a)clear.net.nz... > > >> rbwinn wrote: > > >>> On Jun 28, 12:19 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>> On Jun 27, 6:38 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>>>> On Jun 22, 12:58 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 21, 5:07 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 4:22 pm, Darrell Stec > > >>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 3:35 am, Darrell Stec > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 8:22 am, Darrell Stec > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 3:50 pm, Darrell Stec > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 10:11?am, Darrell Stec > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2:53?am, Darrell Stec > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I analyzed the Bible. ?What I find is that God > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would not want His children to die and just cease to > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or to be punished forever, so He sent his Son to > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overcome death. ?Because of wickedness, we see today > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that most people will reject God's gift of eternal > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me ask you a question. ?Who would know more about > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LDS > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theology, one of the churches twelve apostles, or a > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hari > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krishna monk> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who do you think would know more about LDS theology? > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Why > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do you ask? Robert B. Winn > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Evasion noted. ?Why are you afraid to answer a couple of > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions? Why do you think I would ask? ?Could it be > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer might be obvious? > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, if the answer is obvious, then there was no reason > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask the question. �Go ahead and say whatever you were > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say. Robert B. Winn > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you afraid to tell us whether or not one of the 12 > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostles of the Mormon church would know more about LDS > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theology > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than an Hari Krishna monk? What are you afraid of? �I know > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer, but I don't know if you do and that is why I am > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asking. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Later, > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Darrell Stec � � �dars...(a)neo..rr.com > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, why don't you just make up your own mind about that? > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already have made an informed and knowledgeable opinion. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to find out what you believe (asking what you think > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfair because you are shooting without bullets) to be the > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you afraid to answer the question? �Is it because it > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never been discussed in bible school and you have nothing to > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copy > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and paste? Go ask your bishop what he thinks, as you allow > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to think for you until you pull stupid things out of thin > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> air. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, why don't you ask my bishop yourself? > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What is his name, email address, physical address and phone > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> number and > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will ask him. �I'll also send him a list of your more insane > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> postings. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I told you athiests > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before that I was not going to be your researcher. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What research do you need to do to answer a question as to > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether an > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostle of your church's council of twelve would know more > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about LDS > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> philosophy than a Hari Krishna monk? �That is a person > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion. �Or do > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean that nobody told you what to think in regard to the > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> question > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so you can't copy and paste it? > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to know what I believe,I can give you name to the > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> missionaries as a referral , and they can tell you what I > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beleive. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why can't you give us your opinion yourself? �Why are you > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> having so > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> many problems answering an easy question? �What are you afraid > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of? > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, the General Authorities of our church have counseled us > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to avoid > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> contention with other churches. �So if you have some bone to > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> pick with > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the Hare Kirshna church, leave me out of it. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you avoiding the question? �Why is it so difficult for > > >>>>>>>>>>>> you to > > >>>>>>>>>>>> answer the question? �It is a simple one. �Whom do you think > > >>>>>>>>>>>> knows more > > >>>>>>>>>>>> about LDS theology, one of the twelve apostles making up the > > >>>>>>>>>>>> council of > > >>>>>>>>>>>> the LDS church or a Hari Krishna monk? �What are you afraid of. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly there is no injunction in your church against > > >>>>>>>>>>>> answering the > > >>>>>>>>>>>> question. �Why are you avoiding it? > > >>>>>>>>>>> I am not avoiding it. �You said the answer is obvious, so > > >>>>>>>>>>> obviously, > > >>>>>>>>>>> you already know the answer. > > >>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > > >>>>>>>>>> I know the answer to the question. �I do not know what YOUR answer > > >>>>>>>>>> to the > > >>>>>>>>>> question is because you are too afraid to answer a simple, direct > > >>>>>>>>>> question. > > >>>>>>>>>> Why is that? �I want to know what YOUR answer to the question is. > > >>>>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>>> Well, just write to church headquarters in Salt Lake City and get > > >>>>>>>>> an > > >>>>>>>>> official answer from the church. �Anything I could tell you would > > >>>>>>>>> only > > >>>>>>>>> be my own opinion. > > >>>>>>>> Anything they tell us would only be theirs.- Hide quoted text - > > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > >>>>>>> Well, so you are going to make up something then and attribute it to > > >>>>>>> us. �We have seen this before. > > >>>>>> I'm not sure where this claim comes from, can you tell me?- Hide > > >>>>>> quoted text - > > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > >>>>> It came from me. > > >>>> Maybe if you could show me where I did that? Why won't you back up > > >>>> anything you say?- Hide quoted text - > > > >>>> - Show quoted text - > > >>> Well, for instance, I said that Hezekiah's tunnel exists, and you and > > >>> other atheists claimed that I had said that London, England, does not > > >>> exist. �I did not say a thing about London, England. �It all came from > > >>> atheists. > > >> No, it follows by the application of your logic. If you don't like the > > >> results then re-think the logic. <shrug> I guess it just depends on how > > >> consistent you want to be. > > > > From his posts I can tell he wants to be consistently stupid, consistently > > > disengenous, consistently untruthfull and consistently illogical. > > > Such is the effect of religion on some. > > > Maybe it's the only way that belief can be maintained? I would suggest > > that faith requiring irrational thought, compartmentalisation and > > bare-faced lies is not worth defending!- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Well, there is the beauty of the gospel. We do not need to defend > the faith. All we need to do is accept the atonement of Christ and > keep his commandments. > Robert B. Winn Well, I'd say that pretty much lends credence to that idea that faith and critical thinking are mutually exclusive. Al
From: Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al) on 30 Jun 2008 00:37 On Jun 30, 8:42 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > On Jun 29, 8:48�am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:48:40 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > wrote in alt.atheism: > > > >On Jun 29, 12:22�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >> rbwinn wrote: > > >> > On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > >> >> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > >> >> wrote in alt.atheism: > > > >> >>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > >> >>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > >> >>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > > >> >>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >> >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >> >>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >> >>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > > >> >>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > > >> >>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose > > >> >>>>>>>>>> their > > >> >>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. > > >> >>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to > > >> >>>>>>>>> believe. > > >> >>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate > > >> >>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. > > >> >>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be > > >> >>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals > > >> >>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. > > >> >>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. > > >> >>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > > >> >>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact > > >> >>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > > >> >>>> - Show quoted text - > > >> >>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > > >> >> So? > > > >> >> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - > > > >> >> - Show quoted text - > > > >> > I never have believed in evolution. �I think it is a fable, just as > > >> > Paul said it was. > > > >> Classic, got a scripture for that?- Hide quoted text - > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > >Yes, we are still on the scripture in Isaiah that says that a tunnel > > >was dug as a conduit for water between Gihon spring and the pool of > > >Siloam. > > > So, where is the evidence that the entire story is correct? The tunnel, > > as you know, is not evidence that the story is correct.- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Well, so you are still taking the position that there is no tunnel. > If the tunnel exists, then it is evidence that the Biblical account of > the construction of the tunnel is correct. So it seems to me to > depend on whether or not there is a tunnel there. Jerusalem tour > guides say the tunnel is there and take tourists on tours through it. > Atheists say it is not there because the Bible describes its > construction. So we are discussing a religious difference. Atheists > want solid rock where tour guides say the tunnel is. They seem to > believe that if they have enough faith in atheism, the tunnel will > change to solid rock. > Robert B. Winn Why are you still denying that London exists? If London exists then that confirms that trains leave on the subway system, and that the account in Harry Potter and the whatever is correct and that the trains go to Hogwarts. This seems to depend on whether there is a London or not. English tour guides all agree that there is such a place as London. Robby says it isn't there because it's emntioned in a Harry Potter book. So we are discussing a difference of opinion on how much Robby lies. Robby has a lot of blind delusions. Al
From: Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al) on 30 Jun 2008 00:49 On Jun 30, 1:26 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > On Jun 29, 2:11 pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > On Jun 27, 6:54�pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > > >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > > >>news:93faee1e-7aa9-4f18-b761-3a585ebcbaf0(a)v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com.... > > >> On Jun 26, 5:05 am, RobertL <robertml...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >>> On Jun 26, 4:48 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > >>>> On Jun 25, 7:27?pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > > >>>>>> Actually, you ought to consider the consequences of a proof by God > > >>>>>> that he does not exist. > > >>>>> If that were to happen, people would have no choice except to believe > > >>>>> in God. > > >>>>> Why should anyone believe in a proven non-existent god? > > >>>> Proven by whom? > > >> By god himself! > > > >>> A proof is a proof; it doesn't matter who proved it. > > >>> Robert > > >> Well, if there was no one who proved it, and nothing was proven, then > > >> it did not happen. > > >> ----------------------------------- > > >> Just like your bible stories. > > > > Well, I believed in the story of Hezekiah's tunnel being dug, and sure > > > enough, there is a tunnel there today, just as the Bible says there > > > is. How do you explain it? > > > ER..there was a tunnel? > > > So what? > > > > Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Well, if there was an atheist anywhere who would admit that the verses > of the Bible which describe the construction of the tunnel were true, > then we could discuss other verses. As long as atheists claim that > Hezekiah's tunnel is a myth, then we will just discuss Hezekiah's > tunnel. > Robert B. Winn As long as you keep lying about what people have said when the original is still online, people will think you're a loony. And call you a liar. Al
From: Free Lunch on 30 Jun 2008 00:52
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:58:24 +0100, "Alex W." <ingilt(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in alt.atheism: > >"Free Lunch" <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote in message >news:ej5g64psvc40o3fq3lpi12h4id0b8dskga(a)4ax.com... >> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:32:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> >> wrote in alt.atheism: > > >>>Why would I invent a religion? >> >> Because the ones that demand you be honest all reject you. > >Kindly cite a religion that expects its adherents to be honest. They all *claim* that they want their adherents to be honest (except for a certain willingness to adhere to unsubstantiated beliefs), but they may not expect their adherents to be honest. |