Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 30 Jun 2008 10:11 On Jun 29, 11:49 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 29, 12:11�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> Smiler wrote: > >>> "BuddyThunder" <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in message > >>>news:4866a92b$1(a)clear.net.nz... > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 28, 12:19 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:38 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 22, 12:58 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 21, 5:07 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 4:22 pm, Darrell Stec > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 3:35 am, Darrell Stec > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 8:22 am, Darrell Stec > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 3:50 pm, Darrell Stec > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 10:11?am, Darrell Stec > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2:53?am, Darrell Stec > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I analyzed the Bible. ?What I find is that God > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would not want His children to die and just cease to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or to be punished forever, so He sent his Son to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overcome death. ?Because of wickedness, we see today > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that most people will reject God's gift of eternal > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me ask you a question. ?Who would know more about > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LDS > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theology, one of the churches twelve apostles, or a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hari > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krishna monk> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who do you think would know more about LDS theology? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Why > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do you ask? Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Evasion noted. ?Why are you afraid to answer a couple of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions? Why do you think I would ask? ?Could it be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer might be obvious? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, if the answer is obvious, then there was no reason > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask the question. �Go ahead and say whatever you were > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say. Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you afraid to tell us whether or not one of the 12 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostles of the Mormon church would know more about LDS > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theology > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than an Hari Krishna monk? What are you afraid of? �I know > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer, but I don't know if you do and that is why I am > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asking. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Later, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Darrell Stec � � �dars...(a)neo..rr.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, why don't you just make up your own mind about that? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already have made an informed and knowledgeable opinion. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to find out what you believe (asking what you think > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfair because you are shooting without bullets) to be the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you afraid to answer the question? �Is it because it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never been discussed in bible school and you have nothing to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copy > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and paste? Go ask your bishop what he thinks, as you allow > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to think for you until you pull stupid things out of thin > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> air. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, why don't you ask my bishop yourself? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What is his name, email address, physical address and phone > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will ask him. �I'll also send him a list of your more insane > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postings. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I told you athiests > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before that I was not going to be your researcher. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What research do you need to do to answer a question as to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether an > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostle of your church's council of twelve would know more > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about LDS > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> philosophy than a Hari Krishna monk? �That is a person > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion. �Or do > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean that nobody told you what to think in regard to the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so you can't copy and paste it? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to know what I believe,I can give you name to the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> missionaries as a referral , and they can tell you what I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beleive. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why can't you give us your opinion yourself? �Why are you > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having so > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many problems answering an easy question? �What are you afraid > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, the General Authorities of our church have counseled us > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to avoid > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contention with other churches. �So if you have some bone to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pick with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Hare Kirshna church, leave me out of it. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you avoiding the question? �Why is it so difficult for > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer the question? �It is a simple one. �Whom do you think > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> knows more > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about LDS theology, one of the twelve apostles making up the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> council of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the LDS church or a Hari Krishna monk? �What are you afraid of. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly there is no injunction in your church against > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> answering the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> question. �Why are you avoiding it? > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not avoiding it. �You said the answer is obvious, so > >>>>>>>>>>>>> obviously, > >>>>>>>>>>>>> you already know the answer. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>>>> I know the answer to the question. �I do not know what YOUR answer > >>>>>>>>>>>> to the > >>>>>>>>>>>> question is because you are too afraid to answer a simple, direct > >>>>>>>>>>>> question. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Why is that? �I want to know what YOUR answer to the question is. > >>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>> Well, just write to church headquarters in Salt Lake City and get > >>>>>>>>>>> an > >>>>>>>>>>> official answer from the church. �Anything I could tell you would > >>>>>>>>>>> only > >>>>>>>>>>> be my own opinion. > >>>>>>>>>> Anything they tell us would only be theirs.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> Well, so you are going to make up something then and attribute it to > >>>>>>>>> us. �We have seen this before. > >>>>>>>> I'm not sure where this claim comes from, can you tell me?- Hide > >>>>>>>> quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> It came from me. > >>>>>> Maybe if you could show me where I did that? Why won't you back up > >>>>>> anything you say?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> Well, for instance, I said that Hezekiah's tunnel exists, and you and > >>>>> other atheists claimed that I had said that London, England, does not > >>>>> exist. �I did not say a thing about London, England. �It all came from > >>>>> atheists. > >>>> No, it follows by the application of your logic. If you don't like the > >>>> results then re-think the logic. <shrug> I guess it just depends on how > >>>> consistent you want to be. > >>> From his posts I can tell he wants to be consistently stupid, consistently > >>> disengenous, consistently untruthfull and consistently illogical. > >>> Such is the effect of religion on some. > >> Maybe it's the only way that belief can be maintained? I would suggest > >> that faith requiring irrational thought, compartmentalisation and > >> bare-faced lies is not worth defending!- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Well, there is the beauty of the gospel.  We do not need to defend > > the faith.  All we need to do is accept the atonement of Christ and > > keep his commandments. > > I can't accept Christ's atonement without first believing in it. I > don't. Why would I?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, you would if you wanted to be saved. You will probably change your mind about it after you die. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 30 Jun 2008 10:14 On Jun 29, 11:50 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 29, 8:44�am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:26:23 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> wrote in alt.atheism: > > >>> On Jun 29, 12:13�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 28, 2:15 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:04?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:01:05 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:21?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>> ... > >>>>>>>>>>> No, you were trying to hedge your bets. ?You do not believe in faith, > >>>>>>>>>>> but you are "on the edge of faith", so that counts in case you need to > >>>>>>>>>>> have faith. ?I know how atheists think. > >>>>>>>>>> Why would I need to hedge my bets? I believe in faith, I just don't > >>>>>>>>>> think it's rational. And believe me, you really *don't* know how > >>>>>>>>>> atheists think.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> I know far better than atheists how they think. ?They have made a > >>>>>>>>> wrong choice, so their options are limited. > >>>>>>>> Your lies are indefensible. You celebrate the evil that you have fallen > >>>>>>>> into. > >>>>>>> I thought you atheists did not believe evil exists. �If there is no > >>>>>>> devil, everything is good, isn't it? > >>>>>> Evil sounds like a religious concept to me, but why would you think that > >>>>>> we can't differentiate right from wrong. Another strawman? > >>>>>> We seem to be able to discuss without lying, can you?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> Sure. �A while back you were saying that there was nothing wrong with > >>>>> killing children before they are born. �So are you saying that killing > >>>>> children before they are born is a good thing? > >>>> Where did I say that? Can you show me, or is that another lie? Abortion > >>>> is deeply unpleasant, however I don't think it should be banned. They're > >>>> not children yet, by the way.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Not children yet? �What do you think they are? > >> Embryos and fetuses.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > So you are saying that people who call them unborn children are lying? > > Shades of grey. Technically, I would say, they're incorrect. Isn't it a > bit like saying "live corpse"?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, Luke was a physician, and here is what he wrote: Luke 2:5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. What I think you should do is discuss it with Luke after the resurrection. He might be able to convince you. I am not even going to try. Rober b. Winn
From: rbwinn on 30 Jun 2008 10:15 On Jun 29, 11:50 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 29, 10:57�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >>news:1c31d316-2b91-43f6-b6c0-3fb4dbf97774(a)z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com.... > >> On Jun 29, 12:13 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>> On Jun 28, 2:15 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:04?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:01:05 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:21?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> ... > >>>>>>>>>> No, you were trying to hedge your bets. ?You do not believe in > >>>>>>>>>> faith, > >>>>>>>>>> but you are "on the edge of faith", so that counts in case you > >>>>>>>>>> need to > >>>>>>>>>> have faith. ?I know how atheists think. > >>>>>>>>> Why would I need to hedge my bets? I believe in faith, I just don't > >>>>>>>>> think it's rational. And believe me, you really *don't* know how > >>>>>>>>> atheists think.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>> I know far better than atheists how they think. ?They have made a > >>>>>>>> wrong choice, so their options are limited. > >>>>>>> Your lies are indefensible. You celebrate the evil that you have > >>>>>>> fallen > >>>>>>> into. > >>>>>> I thought you atheists did not believe evil exists. If there is no > >>>>>> devil, everything is good, isn't it? > >>>>> Evil sounds like a religious concept to me, but why would you think > >>>>> that > >>>>> we can't differentiate right from wrong. Another strawman? > >>>>> We seem to be able to discuss without lying, can you?- Hide quoted > >>>>> text - > >>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>> Sure. A while back you were saying that there was nothing wrong with > >>>> killing children before they are born. So are you saying that killing > >>>> children before they are born is a good thing? > >>> Where did I say that? Can you show me, or is that another lie? Abortion > >>> is deeply unpleasant, however I don't think it should be banned. They're > >>> not children yet, by the way.- Hide quoted text - > >>> - Show quoted text - > >> Not children yet? �What do you think they are? > > >> =============== > > >> Technically speaking, they are parasites living off a grown female.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Well, thank you for your answer, Alex.  So human beings are nothing > > except parasites in atheist theology. > > Read it again, this time trying to understand as you go.- Hide quoted text - > I understood it exactly the first time I read it. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 30 Jun 2008 10:17 On Jun 29, 11:54 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 29, 1:01 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 29, 12:13 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 28, 2:15 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:04�am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:01:05 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:21�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>> ... > >>>>>>>>>>> No, you were trying to hedge your bets. �You do not believe in faith, > >>>>>>>>>>> but you are "on the edge of faith", so that counts in case you need to > >>>>>>>>>>> have faith. �I know how atheists think. > >>>>>>>>>> Why would I need to hedge my bets? I believe in faith, I just don't > >>>>>>>>>> think it's rational. And believe me, you really *don't* know how > >>>>>>>>>> atheists think.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> I know far better than atheists how they think. �They have made a > >>>>>>>>> wrong choice, so their options are limited. > >>>>>>>> Your lies are indefensible. You celebrate the evil that you have fallen > >>>>>>>> into. > >>>>>>> I thought you atheists did not believe evil exists.  If there is no > >>>>>>> devil, everything is good, isn't it? > >>>>>> Evil sounds like a religious concept to me, but why would you think that > >>>>>> we can't differentiate right from wrong. Another strawman? > >>>>>> We seem to be able to discuss without lying, can you?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> Sure.  A while back you were saying that there was nothing wrong with > >>>>> killing children before they are born.  So are you saying that killing > >>>>> children before they are born is a good thing? > >>>> Where did I say that? Can you show me, or is that another lie? Abortion > >>>> is deeply unpleasant, however I don't think it should be banned. They're > >>>> not children yet, by the way.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Not children yet?  What do you think they are? > >> A human embryo =/= a human child. One has been born.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > So you are saying that people who speak of unborn children are lying. > > It's not the only option.- Hide quoted text - > Well, one option would be to admit that a baby in its mother's womb is a child. You already said you would never do that. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 30 Jun 2008 10:44
On Jun 29, 11:47 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 29, 12:59 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 29, 12:08 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 28, 2:08 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:11 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:37�pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 22, 12:57 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask other readers here to help me recompose them with a grammar and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> vocabulary appropos for a first or second grade pupil so you can comprehend > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then answer them. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>>>>> All public schools are required to teach atheism. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Please explain how, specifically, they are doing that. Sounding like > >>>>>>>>>>>> another sacred lie...- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>> Teachers hired to teach in public schools are trained in college to > >>>>>>>>>>> teach atheism. > >>>>>>>>>> Is it explicit in their contract? Can you justify that claim? <chirpiing > >>>>>>>>>> crickets>- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> Well, yes it is explicit in their contract.  If someone prayed in > >>>>>>>>> school the way my sixth grade teacher did, he would be fired. > >>>>>>>> I didn't know they had a prayer clause in there. You learn something new > >>>>>>>> every day. Don't you think religion belongs at home, not at school?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> Well, the Bible says that true religion is to help the widow and the > >>>>>>> fatherless in their time of affliction.  Why shouldn't widows and > >>>>>>> fatherless people be helped at school? > >>>>>> Feel free to offer some actual help rather than religion. Unless you can > >>>>>> show that you're right and everyone else is wrong, but you're not doing > >>>>>> well on that score.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> Well, we religious people spend time helping widows and fatherless > >>>>> people.  How are you atheists doing with that? > >>>> Deluded people do not have the altruism market cornered, no matter what > >>>> you'd like to believe.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> So you are saying that you actually believe some religious people are > >>> helping widows and orphans.  That is very open minded for an atheist. > >> Ummm... thanks? What you think I believe is clearly hugely different > >> from what I really believe. Is this your mischaracterisation, or have > >> you been lied to?- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Well, no, Paul was telling the truth when he said that true religion > > was caring for widows and the fatherless. > > That's a religious opinion that I don't share. "True religion" is a > difficult phrase to talk sensibly about - no religion is able to > demonstrate much objective truth more impressive than an old tunnel.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Paul did not have any trouble talking about it. Why does it cause you so much trouble? Robert B. Winn |