Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 30 Jun 2008 15:56 On Jun 30, 1:26�am, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: > On Jun 28, 10:04 pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:59:13 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > wrote in alt.atheism: > > > >On Jun 28, 12:19 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >> rbwinn wrote: > > > ... > > > >> > It came from me. > > > >> Maybe if you could show me where I did that? Why won't you back up > > >> anything you say?- Hide quoted text - > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > >Well, for instance, I said that Hezekiah's tunnel exists, and you and > > >other atheists claimed that I had said that London, England, does not > > >exist. �I did not say a thing about London, England. �It all came from > > >atheists. > > > You lie to us, once again. Please, don't post another post that contains > > lies. Learn to be honest. Stop mocking the religion you claim to be part > > of and stop mocking the God you claim to worship. Your lies are a stench > > upon the world. > > It all boils down to psycho problem. > He is not himself or he can't help himself. And I am not sure if he > knows that he lied. > I have ask if he need a recommendation for a good psychiatric doctor, > but certainly there is no medicine to help him.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, what I would suggest is that you go to a magistrate somewhere in the United States and file a petition asking for the institutionalization of a person believed to be insane. Anyone is free to do this. Don't just talk. Do something to show that you believe what you say. Robert B. Winn
From: BuddyThunder on 30 Jun 2008 15:57 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 29, 11:47 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jun 29, 12:59 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jun 29, 12:08 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2:08 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:11 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:37�pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 22, 12:57 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask other readers here to help me recompose them with a grammar and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vocabulary appropos for a first or second grade pupil so you can comprehend >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then answer them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All public schools are required to teach atheism. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please explain how, specifically, they are doing that. Sounding like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> another sacred lie...- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>> Teachers hired to teach in public schools are trained in college to >>>>>>>>>>>>> teach atheism. >>>>>>>>>>>> Is it explicit in their contract? Can you justify that claim? <chirpiing >>>>>>>>>>>> crickets>- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>> Well, yes it is explicit in their contract. If someone prayed in >>>>>>>>>>> school the way my sixth grade teacher did, he would be fired. >>>>>>>>>> I didn't know they had a prayer clause in there. You learn something new >>>>>>>>>> every day. Don't you think religion belongs at home, not at school?- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>> Well, the Bible says that true religion is to help the widow and the >>>>>>>>> fatherless in their time of affliction. Why shouldn't widows and >>>>>>>>> fatherless people be helped at school? >>>>>>>> Feel free to offer some actual help rather than religion. Unless you can >>>>>>>> show that you're right and everyone else is wrong, but you're not doing >>>>>>>> well on that score.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> Well, we religious people spend time helping widows and fatherless >>>>>>> people. How are you atheists doing with that? >>>>>> Deluded people do not have the altruism market cornered, no matter what >>>>>> you'd like to believe.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> So you are saying that you actually believe some religious people are >>>>> helping widows and orphans. That is very open minded for an atheist. >>>> Ummm... thanks? What you think I believe is clearly hugely different >>>> from what I really believe. Is this your mischaracterisation, or have >>>> you been lied to?- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Well, no, Paul was telling the truth when he said that true religion >>> was caring for widows and the fatherless. >> That's a religious opinion that I don't share. "True religion" is a >> difficult phrase to talk sensibly about - no religion is able to >> demonstrate much objective truth more impressive than an old tunnel.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Well, the only reason I used the old tunnel was because it was > something that atheists could come to understand after a long time. > After enough repetitions, even an atheist cannot make a disconnect > between what was written and what exists. There are much more mundane examples in the Bible that prove just as much. Egypt, Jerusalem, the Nile, they're all places mentioned in the Bible that really exist. What's your point. People write nice stories about real places, so what? Why would you base your life around one? And why that one?
From: BuddyThunder on 30 Jun 2008 15:59 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 29, 9:30 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: >> On Jun 30, 8:19 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jun 29, 12:11�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> Smiler wrote: >>>>> "BuddyThunder" <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in message >>>>> news:4866a92b$1(a)clear.net.nz... >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:19 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:38 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 22, 12:58 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 21, 5:07 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 4:22 pm, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 3:35 am, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 8:22 am, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 3:50 pm, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 10:11?am, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2:53?am, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I analyzed the Bible. ?What I find is that God >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would not want His children to die and just cease to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or to be punished forever, so He sent his Son to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overcome death. ?Because of wickedness, we see today >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that most people will reject God's gift of eternal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me ask you a question. ?Who would know more about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LDS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theology, one of the churches twelve apostles, or a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hari >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krishna monk> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who do you think would know more about LDS theology? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do you ask? Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Evasion noted. ?Why are you afraid to answer a couple of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions? Why do you think I would ask? ?Could it be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer might be obvious? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, if the answer is obvious, then there was no reason >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask the question. �Go ahead and say whatever you were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say. Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you afraid to tell us whether or not one of the 12 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostles of the Mormon church would know more about LDS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theology >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than an Hari Krishna monk? What are you afraid of? �I know >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer, but I don't know if you do and that is why I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asking. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Later, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Darrell Stec � � �dars...(a)neo.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, why don't you just make up your own mind about that? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already have made an informed and knowledgeable opinion. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to find out what you believe (asking what you think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfair because you are shooting without bullets) to be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you afraid to answer the question? �Is it because it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never been discussed in bible school and you have nothing to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and paste? Go ask your bishop what he thinks, as you allow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to think for you until you pull stupid things out of thin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> air. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, why don't you ask my bishop yourself? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What is his name, email address, physical address and phone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will ask him. �I'll also send him a list of your more insane >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postings. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I told you athiests >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before that I was not going to be your researcher. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What research do you need to do to answer a question as to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostle of your church's council of twelve would know more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about LDS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> philosophy than a Hari Krishna monk? �That is a person >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion. �Or do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean that nobody told you what to think in regard to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so you can't copy and paste it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to know what I believe,I can give you name to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> missionaries as a referral , and they can tell you what I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beleive. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why can't you give us your opinion yourself? �Why are you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many problems answering an easy question? �What are you afraid >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, the General Authorities of our church have counseled us >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to avoid >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contention with other churches. �So if you have some bone to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pick with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Hare Kirshna church, leave me out of it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you avoiding the question? �Why is it so difficult for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer the question? �It is a simple one. �Whom do you think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knows more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about LDS theology, one of the twelve apostles making up the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> council of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the LDS church or a Hari Krishna monk? �What are you afraid of. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly there is no injunction in your church against >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answering the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question. �Why are you avoiding it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not avoiding it. �You said the answer is obvious, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obviously, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you already know the answer. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know the answer to the question. �I do not know what YOUR answer >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> question is because you are too afraid to answer a simple, direct >>>>>>>>>>>>>> question. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why is that? �I want to know what YOUR answer to the question is. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, just write to church headquarters in Salt Lake City and get >>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>> official answer from the church. �Anything I could tell you would >>>>>>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>>>>>> be my own opinion. >>>>>>>>>>>> Anything they tell us would only be theirs.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>> Well, so you are going to make up something then and attribute it to >>>>>>>>>>> us. �We have seen this before. >>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure where this claim comes from, can you tell me?- Hide >>>>>>>>>> quoted text - >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>> It came from me. >>>>>>>> Maybe if you could show me where I did that? Why won't you back up >>>>>>>> anything you say?- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> Well, for instance, I said that Hezekiah's tunnel exists, and you and >>>>>>> other atheists claimed that I had said that London, England, does not >>>>>>> exist. �I did not say a thing about London, England. �It all came from >>>>>>> atheists. >>>>>> No, it follows by the application of your logic. If you don't like the >>>>>> results then re-think the logic. <shrug> I guess it just depends on how >>>>>> consistent you want to be. >>>>> From his posts I can tell he wants to be consistently stupid, consistently >>>>> disengenous, consistently untruthfull and consistently illogical. >>>>> Such is the effect of religion on some. >>>> Maybe it's the only way that belief can be maintained? I would suggest >>>> that faith requiring irrational thought, compartmentalisation and >>>> bare-faced lies is not worth defending!- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Well, there is the beauty of the gospel. We do not need to defend >>> the faith. All we need to do is accept the atonement of Christ and >>> keep his commandments. >>> Robert B. Winn >> Well, I'd say that pretty much lends credence to that idea that faith >> and critical thinking are mutually exclusive. >> >> Al- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Uh huh. So let's see your proof that we need to defend faith. Jesus > Christ says all we need to do is follow his teachings. Blindly, it would seem. The big green cactus monster under my bed says that you should sell all your belongings and follow him. No, you don't need any evidence he exists, my word is good enough, right? Your word is supposed to be good enough for us, why the double-standard?
From: BuddyThunder on 30 Jun 2008 16:01 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 29, 11:49 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jun 29, 12:11�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> Smiler wrote: >>>>> "BuddyThunder" <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in message >>>>> news:4866a92b$1(a)clear.net.nz... >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:19 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:38 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 22, 12:58 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 21, 5:07 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 4:22 pm, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 3:35 am, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 8:22 am, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 3:50 pm, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 10:11?am, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2:53?am, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I analyzed the Bible. ?What I find is that God >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would not want His children to die and just cease to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or to be punished forever, so He sent his Son to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overcome death. ?Because of wickedness, we see today >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that most people will reject God's gift of eternal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me ask you a question. ?Who would know more about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LDS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theology, one of the churches twelve apostles, or a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hari >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krishna monk> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who do you think would know more about LDS theology? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do you ask? Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Evasion noted. ?Why are you afraid to answer a couple of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions? Why do you think I would ask? ?Could it be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer might be obvious? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, if the answer is obvious, then there was no reason >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask the question. �Go ahead and say whatever you were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say. Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you afraid to tell us whether or not one of the 12 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostles of the Mormon church would know more about LDS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theology >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than an Hari Krishna monk? What are you afraid of? �I know >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer, but I don't know if you do and that is why I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asking. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Later, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Darrell Stec � � �dars...(a)neo.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, why don't you just make up your own mind about that? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already have made an informed and knowledgeable opinion. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to find out what you believe (asking what you think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfair because you are shooting without bullets) to be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you afraid to answer the question? �Is it because it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never been discussed in bible school and you have nothing to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and paste? Go ask your bishop what he thinks, as you allow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to think for you until you pull stupid things out of thin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> air. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, why don't you ask my bishop yourself? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What is his name, email address, physical address and phone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will ask him. �I'll also send him a list of your more insane >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postings. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I told you athiests >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before that I was not going to be your researcher. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What research do you need to do to answer a question as to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostle of your church's council of twelve would know more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about LDS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> philosophy than a Hari Krishna monk? �That is a person >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion. �Or do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean that nobody told you what to think in regard to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so you can't copy and paste it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to know what I believe,I can give you name to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> missionaries as a referral , and they can tell you what I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beleive. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why can't you give us your opinion yourself? �Why are you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many problems answering an easy question? �What are you afraid >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, the General Authorities of our church have counseled us >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to avoid >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contention with other churches. �So if you have some bone to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pick with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Hare Kirshna church, leave me out of it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you avoiding the question? �Why is it so difficult for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer the question? �It is a simple one. �Whom do you think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knows more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about LDS theology, one of the twelve apostles making up the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> council of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the LDS church or a Hari Krishna monk? �What are you afraid of. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly there is no injunction in your church against >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answering the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question. �Why are you avoiding it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not avoiding it. �You said the answer is obvious, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obviously, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you already know the answer. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I know the answer to the question. �I do not know what YOUR answer >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> question is because you are too afraid to answer a simple, direct >>>>>>>>>>>>>> question. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why is that? �I want to know what YOUR answer to the question is. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, just write to church headquarters in Salt Lake City and get >>>>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>>>> official answer from the church. �Anything I could tell you would >>>>>>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>>>>>> be my own opinion. >>>>>>>>>>>> Anything they tell us would only be theirs.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>> Well, so you are going to make up something then and attribute it to >>>>>>>>>>> us. �We have seen this before. >>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure where this claim comes from, can you tell me?- Hide >>>>>>>>>> quoted text - >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>> It came from me. >>>>>>>> Maybe if you could show me where I did that? Why won't you back up >>>>>>>> anything you say?- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> Well, for instance, I said that Hezekiah's tunnel exists, and you and >>>>>>> other atheists claimed that I had said that London, England, does not >>>>>>> exist. �I did not say a thing about London, England. �It all came from >>>>>>> atheists. >>>>>> No, it follows by the application of your logic. If you don't like the >>>>>> results then re-think the logic. <shrug> I guess it just depends on how >>>>>> consistent you want to be. >>>>> From his posts I can tell he wants to be consistently stupid, consistently >>>>> disengenous, consistently untruthfull and consistently illogical. >>>>> Such is the effect of religion on some. >>>> Maybe it's the only way that belief can be maintained? I would suggest >>>> that faith requiring irrational thought, compartmentalisation and >>>> bare-faced lies is not worth defending!- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Well, there is the beauty of the gospel. We do not need to defend >>> the faith. All we need to do is accept the atonement of Christ and >>> keep his commandments. >> I can't accept Christ's atonement without first believing in it. I >> don't. Why would I?- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Well, you would if you wanted to be saved. You will probably change > your mind about it after you die. Saved from what? What strange beliefs. Not much of a religion if it can't be distinguished from any other as being "the truth". Not much of a religion if all you have is "you'll see". Ah well. Upwards and onwards!
From: BuddyThunder on 30 Jun 2008 16:02
rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 29, 11:50 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jun 29, 8:44�am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:26:23 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>> On Jun 29, 12:13�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2:15 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:04?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:01:05 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:21?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>>>> No, you were trying to hedge your bets. ?You do not believe in faith, >>>>>>>>>>>>> but you are "on the edge of faith", so that counts in case you need to >>>>>>>>>>>>> have faith. ?I know how atheists think. >>>>>>>>>>>> Why would I need to hedge my bets? I believe in faith, I just don't >>>>>>>>>>>> think it's rational. And believe me, you really *don't* know how >>>>>>>>>>>> atheists think.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>> I know far better than atheists how they think. ?They have made a >>>>>>>>>>> wrong choice, so their options are limited. >>>>>>>>>> Your lies are indefensible. You celebrate the evil that you have fallen >>>>>>>>>> into. >>>>>>>>> I thought you atheists did not believe evil exists. �If there is no >>>>>>>>> devil, everything is good, isn't it? >>>>>>>> Evil sounds like a religious concept to me, but why would you think that >>>>>>>> we can't differentiate right from wrong. Another strawman? >>>>>>>> We seem to be able to discuss without lying, can you?- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> Sure. �A while back you were saying that there was nothing wrong with >>>>>>> killing children before they are born. �So are you saying that killing >>>>>>> children before they are born is a good thing? >>>>>> Where did I say that? Can you show me, or is that another lie? Abortion >>>>>> is deeply unpleasant, however I don't think it should be banned. They're >>>>>> not children yet, by the way.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> Not children yet? �What do you think they are? >>>> Embryos and fetuses.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> So you are saying that people who call them unborn children are lying? >> Shades of grey. Technically, I would say, they're incorrect. Isn't it a >> bit like saying "live corpse"?- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Well, Luke was a physician, and here is what he wrote: Luke 2:5 To > be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. > What I think you should do is discuss it with Luke after the > resurrection. He might be able to convince you. I am not even going > to try. Luke Skywalker was a Jedi. Much cooler! |