Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: Alex W. on 30 Jun 2008 13:42 "Free Lunch" <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote in message news:9ipg649e2urs6bgci76j1sk4bebjjd8pe5(a)4ax.com... > On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:58:24 +0100, "Alex W." <ingilt(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote > in alt.atheism: > >> >>"Free Lunch" <lunch(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote in message >>news:ej5g64psvc40o3fq3lpi12h4id0b8dskga(a)4ax.com... >>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:32:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> >>> wrote in alt.atheism: >> >> >>>>Why would I invent a religion? >>> >>> Because the ones that demand you be honest all reject you. >> >>Kindly cite a religion that expects its adherents to be honest. > > They all *claim* that they want their adherents to be honest (except for > a certain willingness to adhere to unsubstantiated beliefs), but they > may not expect their adherents to be honest. I was thinking of religious honesty. Everyday honesty in dealing with others is hard enough, but how many people are honest enough to admit that their faith has more holes than a Texas roadsign, and that their sacred text is about as reliable as a 70's user manual translated from the original Japanese into English by a dyslexic Albanian? In the end, all faiths are based on humanity's overdeveloped capacity to suspend disbelief by the neck until dead while claiming the exact opposite. In my book, that translates into fundamental dishonesty.
From: rbwinn on 30 Jun 2008 15:24 On Jun 30, 12:25 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 28, 6:06�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> wrote in alt.atheism: > > >>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > >>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose > >>>>>>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. > >>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to > >>>>>>>>>>> believe. > >>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate > >>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. > >>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be > >>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals > >>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. > >>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. > >>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > >>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact > >>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > >>>> So? > >>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> I never have believed in evolution. �I think it is a fable, just as > >>> Paul said it was. > >> Paul knew nothing about it. You mock the Bible with such silly > >> interpretations of it.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > I just believe what Paul said.  You seem a little upset that I do not > > believe your fable. > > Can you please identify what he said about it? Please?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - 2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 30 Jun 2008 15:26 On Jun 30, 12:25�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > Free Lunch wrote: > > On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:15:20 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > wrote in alt.atheism: > > >> On Jun 28, 6:06?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>> wrote in alt.atheism: > > >>>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > >>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose > >>>>>>>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. > >>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to > >>>>>>>>>>>> believe. > >>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate > >>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. > >>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be > >>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals > >>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. > >>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. > >>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > >>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact > >>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > >>>>> So? > >>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>> I never have believed in evolution. ?I think it is a fable, just as > >>>> Paul said it was. > >>> Paul knew nothing about it. You mock the Bible with such silly > >>> interpretations of it.- Hide quoted text - > > >>> - Show quoted text - > >> I just believe what Paul said. �You seem a little upset that I do not > >> believe your fable. > > > Your problem is that you _lied_ about what Paul said. He _never_ said > > that evolution was a fable. That was the lie you told, one you cannot > > back up with _anything_ in the Bible, not from Paul, not from anywhere. > > It's gotta be tough to keep 'em all in a row this far down the road!- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, if Paul had named Charles Darwin by name, atheists would claim he was not talking about evolution. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 30 Jun 2008 15:28 On Jun 30, 12:28 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 29, 8:48�am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:48:40 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> wrote in alt.atheism: > > >>> On Jun 29, 12:22�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. > >>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate > >>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. > >>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be > >>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals > >>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. > >>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. > >>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > >>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact > >>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > >>>>>> So? > >>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> I never have believed in evolution. �I think it is a fable, just as > >>>>> Paul said it was. > >>>> Classic, got a scripture for that?- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Yes, we are still on the scripture in Isaiah that says that a tunnel > >>> was dug as a conduit for water between Gihon spring and the pool of > >>> Siloam. > >> So, where is the evidence that the entire story is correct? The tunnel, > >> as you know, is not evidence that the story is correct.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Well, so you are still taking the position that there is no tunnel. > > If the tunnel exists, then it is evidence that the Biblical account of > > the construction of the tunnel is correct.  So it seems to me to > > depend on whether or not there is a tunnel there.  Jerusalem tour > > guides say the tunnel is there and take tourists on tours through it. > > Atheists say it is not there because the Bible describes its > > construction.  So we are discussing a religious difference.  Atheists > > want solid rock where tour guides say the tunnel is.  They seem to > > believe that if they have enough faith in atheism, the tunnel will > > change to solid rock. > > Shall we start denying Jerusalem's existence just for kicks? You could > make the same empty assertions about Jerusalem. Is it time to admit your > intellectual bankruptcy? Why do you make no effort to be consistent?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well I was consistent. From the beginning I said that Jerusalem was there, Hezekiah's tunnel was there, London was there, Harry Potter was not there. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 30 Jun 2008 15:30
On Jun 30, 12:33 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 29, 1:14 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 29, 12:22 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. > >>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate > >>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. > >>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be > >>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals > >>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. > >>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. > >>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > >>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact > >>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > >>>>>> So? > >>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> I never have believed in evolution.  I think it is a fable, just as > >>>>> Paul said it was. > >>>> Classic, got a scripture for that?- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Yes, we are still on the scripture in Isaiah that says that a tunnel > >>> was dug as a conduit for water between Gihon spring and the pool of > >>> Siloam. > >> Liar. Where did Paul tell you that evolution is a fable? Back up > >> something. Just one thing...- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > 2 Timothy 4:3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound > > doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves > > teachers, having itching ears; > > > 4  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be > > turned unto fables. > > Well, you tried. > > Where does he mention evolution? You claimed that Paul said evolution > was just a fable. That's an explicit claim, can you back it up? > > Maybe the fable he's talking about above is Christianity.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - No a fable is a story where an animal is used with human characteristics, such as monkeys turning into humans. Robert B. Winn |