Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 21 Jul 2008 03:56 On Jul 20, 8:50 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > On Jul 20, 9:37 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 19, 10:53 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > On Jul 19, 10:11�pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > > >>>news:9445436b-52c9-44e7-8b37-1a8008c43c98(a)25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com... > > > >>> On Jul 18, 5:32 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>> On Jul 17, 6:47 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>> On Jul 17, 5:42 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>> On Jul 17, 4:11 am, The Loan Arranger <no...(a)nowhere.invalid> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 15, 6:39?am, The Loan Arranger <no...(a)nowhere.invalid> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 14, 10:38 pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So are you admitting that you have sins? ?This would be a > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first for an > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> atheist. ?All other atheists tell me that they do not have > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sins > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because whatever they do is not sin. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have what YOU call sins. They aren't, because the concept is > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaningless. In absolute terms. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Right. ?Atheist Josef Stalin said the same thing when he killed > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 12 > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> million people. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> As opposed to Adolf Hitler ("I am now as before a Catholic and > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> will > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> always remain so." - quoted in John Towland's biog). > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Not to mention several Popes, who were happy to ordain the > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> indiscriminate massacres of Moslems in the name of the Cross. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Not to mention the Christian fundamentalist GWB (and his father), > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> who > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> seems happy to go to war against the people of any Moslem country > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> that > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> has the audacity not to kow-tow to his government's wishes. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> There is no point in claiming that atheism breeds immorality, or > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> that > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity is the cure, because there are so many > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> counter-examples in > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> both cases that the only conclusion any sensible person can draw > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> is that > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> some people are good, some people are bad, and anyone can be > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> drawn to or > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> away from religion. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> TLA > > > >>>>>>>>>>> So was this John Towland an atheist? > > > >>>>>>>>>> I have no idea, and it's not relevant anyway. He just wrote a biog > > > >>>>>>>>>> of > > > >>>>>>>>>> Hitler. > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, Hitler was a politician saying what would make him popular > > > >>>>>>>>>>> with the German people. His actions in his life show that he did > > > >>>>>>>>>>> not > > > >>>>>>>>>>> believe he would be punished for sins, much like atheists of > > > >>>>>>>>>>> today. > > > >>>>>>>>>> ...and any psychopath with temporal lobe epilepsy or schizophrenia > > > >>>>>>>>>> who > > > >>>>>>>>>> believes that massacring groups or whole races is OK, because > > > >>>>>>>>>> they've > > > >>>>>>>>>> God on their side. However, the point that you're trying to dodge, > > > >>>>>>>>>> and > > > >>>>>>>>>> failing, is that as much evil is done in the name of religion, in > > > >>>>>>>>>> this > > > >>>>>>>>>> case Christian religion, as is done by those with none - probably > > > >>>>>>>>>> more. > > > >>>>>>>>>> If you don't find that an uncomfortable truth, you need to > > > >>>>>>>>>> recalibrate > > > >>>>>>>>>> your humanity. > > > >>>>>>>>>> TLA- Hide quoted text - > > > >>>>>>>>> Well, I don't really see much evidence of it. Stalin and Pol Pot > > > >>>>>>>>> were > > > >>>>>>>>> both atheists. > > > >>>>>>>> They were also both men. So what? > > > >>>>>>>>> But politicians who killed large numbers of people > > > >>>>>>>>> cannot compare with the numbers of people killed by abortion, which > > > >>>>>>>>> was done by governments controlled by atheistic political factions. > > > >>>>>>>> Number of abortions in United States since George W. Bush's > > > >>>>>>>> inauguration: Approximately 9 million > > > >>>>>>>> George W. Bush's religious affiliation: Christian > > > >>>>>>>> What were you saying again? > > > >>>>>>>> -- > > > >>>>>>> George W. Bush is completely irrelevant, as the next President of the > > > >>>>>>> United States will be. All major decisions are made by the atheistic > > > >>>>>>> Supreme Court, which at the present time holds the position of > > > >>>>>>> Judicial dictatorship in the United States. > > > >>>>>> Religious affiliations of Supreme Court Justices: > > > >>>>>> Roberts: Roman Catholic > > > >>>>>> Stevens: Protestant > > > >>>>>> Scalia: Roman Catholic > > > >>>>>> Kennedy: Roman Catholic > > > >>>>>> Souter: Episcopalian > > > >>>>>> Thomas: Roman Catholic > > > >>>>>> Breyer: Jewish > > > >>>>>> Alito: Roman Catholic > > > >>>>>> Ginsburg: Jewish > > > >>>>>> The Supreme Court follows the Constitution of the United States of > > > >>>>>> America, the federal law of the land. > > > >>>>>> What were you saying again? > > > >>>>>> -- > > > >>>>> During my lifetime the Supreme Court has not made even one decision > > > >>>>> that did not promote atheism. It does not matter if they all claim to > > > >>>>> be religious. Actions speak louder than words. > > > >>>> Perhaps you can name me one decision that "promoted atheism". > > > >> <piggybacking here to respond to Winn> > > > > >>> Roe v. Wade > > > >> BZZT! �Roe v. Wade did not promote atheism. �Try again. > > > > > Roe v. Wade accomplished one of the primary goals of atheism, > > > > BZZT!  There are no goals of atheism.  Try again. > > > > -- > > > So you are saying that the atheistic rulers of China do not try to > > control the population of China by limiting reproduction to one child > > per couple?  Now we have the same kind of government here in the > > United States in which the atheistic members of the Supreme Court can > > begin to limit reproduction in the United States.  That is one reason > > why atheists have begun to promote homosexuality.  They see it as a > > means of limiting and controlling population. > > Robert B. Winn > > The marxist communist ideals that the Chinese rulers adhere to are > particularly anti-religious due to organised religion's ability to > organise people.  Generally speaking, marxist governments don't really > care whether people are theists or atheists, they care about > alternative organisations having a say in the minds of their > subjects.  It's all about control of the population.  Something > communism tends to be very clumsy with. > I don't expect you'll see the distinction, as it's not being preached > to you by your pastor. > And China doesn't limit reproduction.  It has financial incentives in > place to encourage single child families.  Yes, they're somewhat > draconian.  But also, yes, something needed to be done. > > Al- Hide quoted text - Well, I thought you would be in line with Communism on that one, Al. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 21 Jul 2008 04:03 On Jul 20, 11:54 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 20, 2:53 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 20, 10:00 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jul 20, 6:34�am, Stan-O <bndsna...(a)aol.com> wrote: > >>>>>> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:27:44 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> No, a couple of atheists have told me that. ?They said he was a > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Russian Orthodox and an alcoholic. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> He was an alcoholic. > >>>>>>>>>>>> So, you're making things up again. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hint: He was not a Christian merely because an atheist claimed he was... > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hint #2: ?What school did Stalin go to in 1888? > >>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>> Stalin went to a Russian Orthodox seminary. ?He rejected what he was > >>>>>>>>>>> taught there and became a mass murderer. > >>>>>>>>>> Only partially true. Like I told you before, politicians, and in > >>>>>>>>>> particular tyrants, will say anything to gain or remain in power. > >>>>>>>>> Well, Stalin did say he was an atheist. ?He told the truth about that. > >>>>>>>> He never openly admitted this. In fact, his religious beliefs were > >>>>>>>> pretty vague. What he hated was the concept of god as presented by the > >>>>>>>> ROC. He did, however, find a political use for the church when it > >>>>>>>> suited his purpose.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> That is quite a statement. �So you are saying that Stalin did not > >>>>>>> believe in the Communist Manifesto? > >>>>>> Tyrants will use or believe anything to maintain their control. He > >>>>>> probably found some parts useful, and ignored anything that > >>>>>> contradicted his personally ideologies...pretty much the same with you > >>>>>> and your bible...- Hide quoted text - > >>>>> Stalin tried to stamp out religion in the Soviet Union.  It is well > >>>>> documented. > >>>> And what's that got to do with atheism? > >>> Stalin was a prominent atheist of his time who is claimed to have been > >>> a Christian by atheists of today. > >> Don't change the subject.  What has what Stalin tried to do relevant to > >> atheism? > > >> -- > > So what is the matter?  Stalin and Pol Pot were atheists.  They will > > never turn into Christians no matter how many times you try to claim > > they were. > > Don't you atheists ever take responsibility for anything? > > Hey they were also men, which surely means that all men are muderous > dictator types, right? Unless all atheists aren't all bad either?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - All atheists are bad. As Pauls said, there is none good, no not one. He was speaking of all men, not just atheists. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 21 Jul 2008 04:05 On Jul 20, 11:57 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al) wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 21, 12:51 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >> On Jul 20, 2:53 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > > >>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>> On Jul 20, 10:00 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: > >>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>> On Jul 20, 6:34�am, Stan-O <bndsna...(a)aol.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:27:44 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, a couple of atheists have told me that. ?They said he was a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Russian Orthodox and an alcoholic. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> He was an alcoholic. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> So, you're making things up again. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hint: He was not a Christian merely because an atheist claimed he was... > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hint #2: ?What school did Stalin go to in 1888? > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>> Stalin went to a Russian Orthodox seminary. ?He rejected what he was > >>>>>>>>>>>> taught there and became a mass murderer. > >>>>>>>>>>> Only partially true. Like I told you before, politicians, and in > >>>>>>>>>>> particular tyrants, will say anything to gain or remain in power. > >>>>>>>>>> Well, Stalin did say he was an atheist. ?He told the truth about that. > >>>>>>>>> He never openly admitted this. In fact, his religious beliefs were > >>>>>>>>> pretty vague. What he hated was the concept of god as presented by the > >>>>>>>>> ROC. He did, however, find a political use for the church when it > >>>>>>>>> suited his purpose.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>> That is quite a statement. �So you are saying that Stalin did not > >>>>>>>> believe in the Communist Manifesto? > >>>>>>> Tyrants will use or believe anything to maintain their control. He > >>>>>>> probably found some parts useful, and ignored anything that > >>>>>>> contradicted his personally ideologies...pretty much the same with you > >>>>>>> and your bible...- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> Stalin tried to stamp out religion in the Soviet Union.  It is well > >>>>>> documented. > >>>>> And what's that got to do with atheism? > >>>> Stalin was a prominent atheist of his time who is claimed to have been > >>>> a Christian by atheists of today. > >>> Don't change the subject.  What has what Stalin tried to do relevant to > >>> atheism? > >>> -- > >> So what is the matter?  Stalin and Pol Pot were atheists.  They will > >> never turn into Christians no matter how many times you try to claim > >> they were. > >> Don't you atheists ever take responsibility for anything? > >> Robert B. Winn > > > Yes.  Personal responsibility.  I'm not Pol Pot, nor am I Joseph > > Stalin.  Nor do they represent normal atheists. > > If you want to take responsibility for all crimes committed by > > religious people, feel free.  There's plenty butchers in that camp.. > > Exactly, I never really understood the smear campaigns. I am only > responsible for my own actions, a responsibility I happily accept. I > cannot be held responsible for atrocities committed before I was born, > no matter how similar the perp's worldview is to mine. > > I've never killed anyone, and I don't intend to.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - That is very commendable. Pol Pot was just an unassuming person also until he became a Communist dictator. Robert B. Winn
From: Alex W. on 21 Jul 2008 07:11 "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" <alwhipp(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:9f95b46d-6d36-4ae0-a91e-248c0aae1986(a)i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com... Robby's brain always seem to use that as an error message. "Well, explain your idea to Jesus when he comes again". ========== Sidebar: that's actually the only error message that I've never seen on a Windows box ... and the only one that would make some sort of horrible sense. ;-)
From: DanielSan on 21 Jul 2008 08:19
rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 20, 7:54 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 20, 2:53 pm, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jul 20, 10:00 am, DanielSan <daniel...(a)speakeasy.net> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jul 20, 6:34�am, Stan-O <bndsna...(a)aol.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:27:44 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, a couple of atheists have told me that. ?They said he was a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Russian Orthodox and an alcoholic. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He was an alcoholic. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, you're making things up again. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hint: He was not a Christian merely because an atheist claimed he was... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hint #2: ?What school did Stalin go to in 1888? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stalin went to a Russian Orthodox seminary. ?He rejected what he was >>>>>>>>>>>>> taught there and became a mass murderer. >>>>>>>>>>>> Only partially true. Like I told you before, politicians, and in >>>>>>>>>>>> particular tyrants, will say anything to gain or remain in power. >>>>>>>>>>> Well, Stalin did say he was an atheist. ?He told the truth about that. >>>>>>>>>> He never openly admitted this. In fact, his religious beliefs were >>>>>>>>>> pretty vague. What he hated was the concept of god as presented by the >>>>>>>>>> ROC. He did, however, find a political use for the church when it >>>>>>>>>> suited his purpose.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>> That is quite a statement. �So you are saying that Stalin did not >>>>>>>>> believe in the Communist Manifesto? >>>>>>>> Tyrants will use or believe anything to maintain their control. He >>>>>>>> probably found some parts useful, and ignored anything that >>>>>>>> contradicted his personally ideologies...pretty much the same with you >>>>>>>> and your bible...- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>> Stalin tried to stamp out religion in the Soviet Union. It is well >>>>>>> documented. >>>>>> And what's that got to do with atheism? >>>>> Stalin was a prominent atheist of his time who is claimed to have been >>>>> a Christian by atheists of today. >>>> Don't change the subject. What has what Stalin tried to do relevant to >>>> atheism? >>>> -- >>> So what is the matter? Stalin and Pol Pot were atheists. They will >>> never turn into Christians no matter how many times you try to claim >>> they were. >>> Don't you atheists ever take responsibility for anything? >> Because what they did is irrelevant to me? Now, back onto the question >> you are REFUSING to answer: >> >> What has what Stalin tried to do ("tried to stamp out religion in the >> Soviet Union") relevant to atheism? >> > Stalin was an atheist. His values and beliefs were much like yours > are today. I'm going to ask again because you're not answering the question: What has what Stalin tried to do ("tried to stamp out religion in the Soviet Union") relevant to atheism? -- ****************************************************** * DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 * *----------------------------------------------------* * "I distrust those people who know so well what God * * wants them to do because I notice it always * * coincides with their own desires." * * --Susan B. Anthony * ****************************************************** |