Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: BuddyThunder on 28 Jun 2008 17:39 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 27, 9:31 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jun 27, 6:17�pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>> news:2612b88d-8906-4340-beae-1823b6ea0d69(a)b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... >>>> On Jun 22, 1:09 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>> On Jun 21, 4:17 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>> On Jun 21, 4:14 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 3:40 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 12:06?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> <snip> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, what you are saying is that the Biblical account of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assyrian >>>>>>>>>>>>>> invasion of Judea is fiction. ?What part of it do you claim is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fiction? ?So far we have discussed the earthen ramp and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hezekiah's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnel. ?Are you still claiming that those are fiction? >>>>>>>>>>>>> You're still claiming London doesn't exist, huh? >>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know either account, so really don't have an opinion. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you >>>>>>>>>>>>> considered that maybe neither account is accurate? If pressed, I >>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>> go with the explanation with the best evidential support. I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> have a >>>>>>>>>>>>> reason to decide at this point. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Happy to be agnostic on something! >>>>>>>>>>>> OK, well, my opinion is that unless an atheist has an opinion >>>>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel and the earthen ramp, it is a waste of time to >>>>>>>>>>>> try >>>>>>>>>>>> to discuss the Bible with that person. >>>>>>>>>>> Wow, why would you say that? It's a minor Biblical detail. >>>>>>>>>>> They exist, is that opinion enough?- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>> Well, any person who will not admit that someing exists which can be >>>>>>>>>> seen is not going to admit the existence of things which cannot be >>>>>>>>>> seen. So conversation with atheists is totally unprofitable. >>>>>>>>> No-one *ever* denied their existence. If they did, then you have >>>>>>>>> consistently denied that London exists too. >>>>>>>>> All we demand is logical consistency. Would you like to talk about >>>>>>>>> Harry >>>>>>>>> Potter again? ;-)- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>> No reason to talk about Harry Potter. There never was. >>>>>>> Then there was no reason to talk about Hezekiah's tunnel or earthern >>>>>>> ramps either. I agree with you. :-)- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>> You said you wanted to talk about the Bible. So now are you saying >>>>>> that you only want to discuss the parts of the Bible that you select? >>>>> I don't remember saying that, maybe if you could point me to the post? I >>>>> don't remember selecting the topic of discussion either, you brought up >>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel and invading army ramps. Discuss what you like Robert, >>>>> we might even find some common ground!- Hide quoted text - >>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>> Well, actions speak louder than words. �You do not want to discuss >>>> Hezekiah's tunnel. �You do not want to discuss the earthen ramp. �You >>>> will discuss certain verses of the Bible you can find fault with. >>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>> That would be most of them. >>>> Smiler, >>>> The godless one >>>> a.a.# 2279- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> So what fault did you find with the verses that describe the >>> construction of Hezekiah's tunnel? >> Is this what you think? >> >> 1. Hezekiah's tunnel is described in the Bible. >> 2. Hezekiah's tunnel really exists. >> 3. Therefore, God exists.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Well, all three statements are true, but you have them in the wrong > order. Therefore , God exists, should be the first statement. Could you explain the rationale for that? There seems to be no logical basis for that.
From: BuddyThunder on 28 Jun 2008 18:42 BURT wrote: > On Jun 28, 11:12 am, "William T. Goat" <ericv...(a)my-deja.com> wrote: >> On May 28, 2:46 pm, mitch.nicolas.raem...(a)gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> On May 28, 9:08 am, Antares 531 <gordonlrDEL...(a)swbell.net> wrote: >>>> On Wed, 28 May 2008 11:46:36 -0400, "Geoff" <geb...(a)yahoo.nospam.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> mitch.nicolas.raem...(a)gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> Science thinks it knows alot? Ask it in a million years. >>>>> Religion claims to know everything. It has been shown to be wrong >>>>> innumerable times. >>>> Quite the contrary, religion acknowledges that there is an infinitude >>>> of information that we don't understand..."for now we see through a >>>> glass, darkly." But, in the next life we will see it all, very >>>> clearly. This is why our current acceptance is based upon faith, >>>> instead of knowledge. >>>> Gordon >>> God does not exist in the same way that physical objects exist. >>> Mitch Raemsch >> Then perhaps "exist" is the wrong word to use. It's misleading. >> >> --Billy- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > No. Exist is the right word. > > "I want to know how God created this universe. I want to know His > thoughts. All the rest are just details." Albert Einstein Albert Einstein did not believe in a personal god. Even if he did, so what?
From: BuddyThunder on 28 Jun 2008 18:42 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 28, 12:44�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:04:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >> wrote in alt.atheism: >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jun 28, 7:02?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:56:16 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>> On Jun 28, 12:11?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:37?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jun 22, 12:57 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> ask other readers here to help me recompose them with a grammar and >>>>>>>>>>>> vocabulary appropos for a first or second grade pupil so you can comprehend >>>>>>>>>>>> and then answer them. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>> All public schools are required to teach atheism. >>>>>>>>>> Please explain how, specifically, they are doing that. Sounding like >>>>>>>>>> another sacred lie...- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>> Teachers hired to teach in public schools are trained in college to >>>>>>>>> teach atheism. >>>>>>>> Is it explicit in their contract? Can you justify that claim? <chirpiing >>>>>>>> crickets>- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>> Well, yes it is explicit in their contract. ?If someone prayed in >>>>>>> school the way my sixth grade teacher did, he would be fired. >>>>>> I didn't know they had a prayer clause in there. You learn something new >>>>>> every day. Don't you think religion belongs at home, not at school?- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> Well, the Bible says that true religion is to help the widow and the >>>>> fatherless in their time of affliction. ?Why shouldn't widows and >>>>> fatherless people be helped at school? >>>> They are helped by schooling. Prayer does nothing at all.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Well, I went all the way through high school. �They were not teaching >>> anything that helped me much. >>> Robert B. Winn >> I don't blame the school.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Well, there you go. Atheists always have to blame someone. Who do > you blame? You seem to be the one tossing about unfounded accusations. How about you?
From: BuddyThunder on 28 Jun 2008 18:43 rbwinn wrote: > On Jun 28, 12:45�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:06:23 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >> wrote in alt.atheism: >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jun 28, 7:04?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:59:13 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>> On Jun 28, 12:19?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>> ... >>>>>>> It came from me. >>>>>> Maybe if you could show me where I did that? Why won't you back up >>>>>> anything you say?- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> Well, for instance, I said that Hezekiah's tunnel exists, and you and >>>>> other atheists claimed that I had said that London, England, does not >>>>> exist. ?I did not say a thing about London, England. ?It all came from >>>>> atheists. >>>> You lie to us, once again. Please, don't post another post that contains >>>> lies. Learn to be honest. Stop mocking the religion you claim to be part >>>> of and stop mocking the God you claim to worship. Your lies are a stench >>>> upon the world. >>> Well, I just said that Hezekiah's tunnel exists. �Why do you find that >>> to be such a stench upon the world? >> I was referring to your lie, not to Hezekiah's tunnel.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Well, I was very truthful. There actually is a tunnel used as a > conduit for water. Yes, but you've lied about it and its implications. You've lied a lot.
From: Smiler on 28 Jun 2008 19:03
"BuddyThunder" <nospam(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in message news:4866a92b$1(a)clear.net.nz... > rbwinn wrote: >> On Jun 28, 12:19 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>> rbwinn wrote: >>>> On Jun 27, 6:38 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>> On Jun 22, 12:58 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>> On Jun 21, 5:07 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 4:22 pm, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 3:35 am, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 19, 8:22 am, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 3:50 pm, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 10:11?am, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 17, 2:53?am, Darrell Stec >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <darrell_s...(a)webpagesorcery.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I analyzed the Bible. ?What I find is that God >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would not want His children to die and just cease to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or to be punished forever, so He sent his Son to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overcome death. ?Because of wickedness, we see today >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that most people will reject God's gift of eternal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me ask you a question. ?Who would know more about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LDS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theology, one of the churches twelve apostles, or a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hari >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Krishna monk> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who do you think would know more about LDS theology? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do you ask? Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Evasion noted. ?Why are you afraid to answer a couple of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions? Why do you think I would ask? ?Could it be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer might be obvious? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, if the answer is obvious, then there was no reason >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask the question. Go ahead and say whatever you were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say. Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you afraid to tell us whether or not one of the 12 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostles of the Mormon church would know more about LDS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theology >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than an Hari Krishna monk? What are you afraid of? I know >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer, but I don't know if you do and that is why I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asking. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Later, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Darrell Stec dars...(a)neo.rr.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, why don't you just make up your own mind about that? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I already have made an informed and knowledgeable opinion. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to find out what you believe (asking what you think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfair because you are shooting without bullets) to be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you afraid to answer the question? Is it because it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never been discussed in bible school and you have nothing to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and paste? Go ask your bishop what he thinks, as you allow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to think for you until you pull stupid things out of thin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> air. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, why don't you ask my bishop yourself? >>>>>>>>>>>>> What is his name, email address, physical address and phone >>>>>>>>>>>>> number and >>>>>>>>>>>>> I will ask him. I'll also send him a list of your more insane >>>>>>>>>>>>> postings. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I told you athiests >>>>>>>>>>>>>> before that I was not going to be your researcher. >>>>>>>>>>>>> What research do you need to do to answer a question as to >>>>>>>>>>>>> whether an >>>>>>>>>>>>> apostle of your church's council of twelve would know more >>>>>>>>>>>>> about LDS >>>>>>>>>>>>> philosophy than a Hari Krishna monk? That is a person >>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion. Or do >>>>>>>>>>>>> you mean that nobody told you what to think in regard to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> question >>>>>>>>>>>>> so you can't copy and paste it? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to know what I believe,I can give you name to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> missionaries as a referral , and they can tell you what I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> beleive. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Why can't you give us your opinion yourself? Why are you >>>>>>>>>>>>> having so >>>>>>>>>>>>> many problems answering an easy question? What are you afraid >>>>>>>>>>>>> of? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>> Well, the General Authorities of our church have counseled us >>>>>>>>>>>> to avoid >>>>>>>>>>>> contention with other churches. So if you have some bone to >>>>>>>>>>>> pick with >>>>>>>>>>>> the Hare Kirshna church, leave me out of it. >>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>> Why are you avoiding the question? Why is it so difficult for >>>>>>>>>>> you to >>>>>>>>>>> answer the question? It is a simple one. Whom do you think >>>>>>>>>>> knows more >>>>>>>>>>> about LDS theology, one of the twelve apostles making up the >>>>>>>>>>> council of >>>>>>>>>>> the LDS church or a Hari Krishna monk? What are you afraid of. >>>>>>>>>>> Certainly there is no injunction in your church against >>>>>>>>>>> answering the >>>>>>>>>>> question. Why are you avoiding it? >>>>>>>>>> I am not avoiding it. You said the answer is obvious, so >>>>>>>>>> obviously, >>>>>>>>>> you already know the answer. >>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>> I know the answer to the question. I do not know what YOUR answer >>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>> question is because you are too afraid to answer a simple, direct >>>>>>>>> question. >>>>>>>>> Why is that? I want to know what YOUR answer to the question is. >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Well, just write to church headquarters in Salt Lake City and get >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> official answer from the church. Anything I could tell you would >>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>> be my own opinion. >>>>>>> Anything they tell us would only be theirs.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>> Well, so you are going to make up something then and attribute it to >>>>>> us. We have seen this before. >>>>> I'm not sure where this claim comes from, can you tell me?- Hide >>>>> quoted text - >>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>> It came from me. >>> Maybe if you could show me where I did that? Why won't you back up >>> anything you say?- Hide quoted text - >>> >>> - Show quoted text - >> >> Well, for instance, I said that Hezekiah's tunnel exists, and you and >> other atheists claimed that I had said that London, England, does not >> exist. I did not say a thing about London, England. It all came from >> atheists. > > No, it follows by the application of your logic. If you don't like the > results then re-think the logic. <shrug> I guess it just depends on how > consistent you want to be. From his posts I can tell he wants to be consistently stupid, consistently disengenous, consistently untruthfull and consistently illogical. Such is the effect of religion on some. Smiler, The godless one a.a.# 2279 |