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From: Kurt Ullman on 27 Dec 2009 16:01 In article <wclark2-C774A1.14203827122009(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, William Clark <wclark2(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> wrote: > If you let private insurance companies cherry pick the low-cost parts of > health care, you will leave the taxpayer with just the expensive > residue. Again, what is the link between employment and health care? It > makes no sense. That we agree on. The link was established by (gasp) the government during WWII. The natives were getting restless with the wage freeze. In order to quiet the natives and the government decided that paying for health insurance wasn't REALLY a wage increase. This, to my mind, was the initial idiocy that started us on the path to where we are today. -- To find that place where the rats don't race and the phones don't ring at all. If once, you've slept on an island. Scott Kirby "If once you've slept on an island"
From: Kurt Ullman on 27 Dec 2009 16:06 In article <wclark2-BA7199.14291727122009(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, William Clark <wclark2(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> wrote: > In article <28KdndzN689-G6rWnZ2dnUVZ_r5i4p2d(a)earthlink.com>, > Kurt Ullman <kurtullman(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > In article > > <wclark2-534414.09473627122009(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > > William Clark <wclark2(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> wrote: > > g to see how > > > > the US comes out. > > > > > > Ah, the standard wingnut dogma to try to get out of the life expectancy > > > trap. Sorry, it doesn't wash. The data are from the UN and WHO and are > > > filtered for difference in reporting practice, so you can save your > > > lottery money, because the study has/is already been done. > > > > I've read the reports and they don't look at such things. Unless you > > are seeing ones I haven't seen. A very high possibility since they do > > come out with so much stuff. Give me a couple places to look. > > I obviously am. UN and WHO reports, to be precise, > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/12/AR2007081 > 200113_pf.html > This one actually tends to make my case. It doesn't address the social issues I was asking about, but does bring some others. > https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/210 > 2rank.html > Listing has nothing at all to do with what I was discussing. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy#List_by > _the_United_Nations_.282005-2010.29 > Same with this one. -- To find that place where the rats don't race and the phones don't ring at all. If once, you've slept on an island. Scott Kirby "If once you've slept on an island"
From: AV3 on 27 Dec 2009 16:41 On Dec/26/2009 4:0140 AM, Mark Conrad wrote: > ... > > I feel exactly the same way, only in reverse. I feel that > rampant socialism is being jammed down our throats here, > whether we want it or not. > Not forced down anyone's throat. There was an election. Obama promised to support Congress in passing health care reform pretty much like what the House of Representatives has recently passed. In that election Obama received a decisive majority of the popular and of the electoral vote. The people also elected a congress with a clear majority in favor of health care reform and a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. The people are getting what they voted for and you can go anywhere your sore throat can be cured. I hope I don't become so senile that I would become a racist, fascistic Conservative, campaigning to replace instruction about evolution in the public schools with instruction about Scientific Creationism in the manner of a true-blue Conservative like you. -- ++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++ ||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <arvimideQ(a)Wearthlink.net> || ||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <arvimideQ(a)Wearthlink.net> || ||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/ || || Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso || ++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
From: William Clark on 27 Dec 2009 17:06 In article <ucOdnedBc6S6VqrWnZ2dnUVZ_gJi4p2d(a)earthlink.com>, Kurt Ullman <kurtullman(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > In article > <wclark2-C774A1.14203827122009(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > William Clark <wclark2(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> wrote: > > > If you let private insurance companies cherry pick the low-cost parts of > > health care, you will leave the taxpayer with just the expensive > > residue. Again, what is the link between employment and health care? It > > makes no sense. > > That we agree on. The link was established by (gasp) the government > during WWII. The natives were getting restless with the wage freeze. In > order to quiet the natives and the government decided that paying for > health insurance wasn't REALLY a wage increase. This, to my mind, was > the initial idiocy that started us on the path to where we are today. Indeed it was - the only way to attract workers while there was a wage freeze on was for companies to offer fringes, such as health insurance. I agree, too, that we should now uncouple health care from private insurance companies via employers once and for all.
From: William Clark on 27 Dec 2009 17:11
In article <271220091148147587%aeiou(a)mostly.invalid>, Mark Conrad <aeiou(a)mostly.invalid> wrote: > In article > <wclark2-C7DDF6.09503127122009(a)charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > William Clark <wclark2(a)colnospamumbus.rr.com> wrote: > > > The lunacy in the current US system is the notion > > that health care should be provided by private > > insurance companies (whose business is based on > > eliminating high risk clients), and linked to > > employment. There is simply no logic > > in that any more. > > Faulty logic on your above statement. > > Insurance companies do not provide health care, > the money comes from taxes. Faulty logic from you. The insurance companies do not "juggle tax money", they take money directly out of wages and salaries, on a system that is not based on the insureds' income. That is 180 degrees out of phase with the tax system. > > All the insurance company does is to juggle all that > tax money before it is dispensed to the health > industry, plus keep a very small portion of > that tax money for themselves, as a fee. In the meantime, doing their best to deny expensive claims, and dump clients whom they classify as high risk. > > If they keep _too_ _much_ money for themselves, > a competitive insurance company will run them > out of business. No it won't, because it is run on a state by state basis. In most states there are only a very few insurers, so there is not genuine competition in the marketplace. They have this sewn up like a cartel. > > > That is, > ...unless some ObamaCare politicians decide to eliminate > _all_ health insurance companies. If that happens, > there is nothing to prevent the ObamaCare zealots from > grabbing as much tax money as they want to grab. Jolly good - you need to go and lie down now. > > > Unlike you, I do not trust any nanny-state politicians to do > the Right Thing. But you are in love with the idea of big insurance corporations doing so. I see. |