The iPad Is Here
in [Mac Systems]
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From: Fred Moore on 29 Jan 2010 13:03 In article <tph-355FFB.15381028012010(a)localhost>, Tom Harrington <tph(a)pcisys.no.spam.dammit.net> wrote: > In article <fmoore-241B39.17163728012010(a)feeder.eternal-september.org>, > Fred Moore <fmoore(a)gcfn.org> wrote: > > > Since you're a developer, let me ask you another question which you > > might be able to answer: > > > > IIRC Steve Jobs said the iPhone OS is a version of Mac OS 10. Supposedly > > the iPad OS is a version of the iPhone OS. Ergo, the iPad runs Mac OS > > 10, despite using an ARM processor. Or is it that the OS in the iPhone > > and/or iPad, while based on Mac OS 10, are so abstracted or reduced that > > they are really different OSes? > > They're all really the same OS, but with vastly different user > interfaces. The iPhone UI restricts access to the underlying OS much > more than on a Mac, but it's the same OS under there, albeit not > necessarily configured in the same way. So if one had access to the root level of the boot 'volume' of an iPhone would we see UNIX directories such as bin, cores, private, and sbin? Would those directories have the full complement of binaries that come with a desktop installation of OS 10? I remember a previous discussion inquiring how one might run the iPhone apps on a desktop Mac (and this sub-topic reappears elsewhere in this thread). The answer previously was that Apple would have to assemble a new translator/emulator because the iPhone apps were running on non-Intel hardware. Well, hasn't Apple already had to have done this to get OS 10 running on the different iPhone/Touch CPUs? So why couldn't they, or someone else, release the translator/emulator to the desktop Macs? (I'm not talking about the simulator that comes as part of the SDK.) Perhaps the reason they haven't released such software has nothing to do with technical hurdles and everything to do with controlling iPhone apps. Tom, your (and others') thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
From: nospam on 29 Jan 2010 13:56 In article <fmoore-D3AA8C.13035729012010(a)mail.eternal-september.org>, Fred Moore <fmoore(a)gcfn.org> wrote: > So if one had access to the root level of the boot 'volume' of an iPhone > would we see UNIX directories such as bin, cores, private, and sbin? > Would those directories have the full complement of binaries that come > with a desktop installation of OS 10? some binaries aren't there but it's basically the same. if there's no need for something, chances are it's not there (space is at a premium). > I remember a previous discussion inquiring how one might run the iPhone > apps on a desktop Mac (and this sub-topic reappears elsewhere in this > thread). The answer previously was that Apple would have to assemble a > new translator/emulator because the iPhone apps were running on > non-Intel hardware. Well, hasn't Apple already had to have done this to > get OS 10 running on the different iPhone/Touch CPUs? os x *does* run on the iphone/ipod touch. > So why couldn't > they, or someone else, release the translator/emulator to the desktop > Macs? (I'm not talking about the simulator that comes as part of the > SDK.) Perhaps the reason they haven't released such software has nothing > to do with technical hurdles and everything to do with controlling > iPhone apps. apple recompiled os x for arm (and previously powerpc). there is no emulator in it.
From: Steve Hix on 29 Jan 2010 14:41 In article <barmar-5F50F7.00592029012010(a)news.eternal-september.org>, Barry Margolin <barmar(a)alum.mit.edu> wrote: > In article <sehix-48EDEF.21404228012010(a)5ad64b5e.bb.sky.com>, > Steve Hix <sehix(a)NOSPAMmac.comINVALID> wrote: > > > In article <barmar-BB4487.22361628012010(a)news.eternal-september.org>, > > Barry Margolin <barmar(a)alum.mit.edu> wrote: > > > > > > Mice are not mentioned for the iPad. > > > > Which makes sense, as you actually touch the target of interest, rather > > than driving a cursor to it and clicking the mouse or trackpad to > > simulate a touch. > > > > > Hopefully they'll add support for it. It seems like it would be more > > > convenient than the touchscreen when you put the iPad into the keyboard > > > dock. Wouldn't using the touchscreen knock it over? > > > > Why? First, all indications so far (not to mention experience with > > Apple's other multitouch devices) is that only a very light touch is > > needed to trigger actions, and second, if you've used an iPod dock, the > > device is moderately well-latched in place. > > > > I doubt if the development team failed to test use in that mode. > > It also just seemed to me that if your hands are down on a horizontal > keyboard, it would be more convenient to slide a hand over to a mouse > than to reach up to the screen. But maybe that's because I'm used to > using screens on a proper computer desk, where the keyboard is in a tray > and my body is 1-2 feet away from the screen. Even though I use a > laptop at work, I only use the built-in keyboard when I take it on the > road, not at the office. Well, there you go. I use a laptop a lot (MBP), and find myself reaching for the trackpad instead of the mouse when I use my desktop machine. Other than for testing purposes, I don't think I've connected an external keyboard to a laptop in years.
From: Steve Hix on 29 Jan 2010 14:46 In article <tph-0946B8.10001329012010(a)localhost>, Tom Harrington <tph(a)pcisys.no.spam.dammit.net> wrote: > In article <sehix-48EDEF.21404228012010(a)5ad64b5e.bb.sky.com>, > Steve Hix <sehix(a)NOSPAMmac.comINVALID> wrote: > > > In article <barmar-BB4487.22361628012010(a)news.eternal-september.org>, > > Barry Margolin <barmar(a)alum.mit.edu> wrote: > > > > > > Mice are not mentioned for the iPad. > > > > Which makes sense, as you actually touch the target of interest, rather > > than driving a cursor to it and clicking the mouse or trackpad to > > simulate a touch. > > > > > Hopefully they'll add support for it. It seems like it would be more > > > convenient than the touchscreen when you put the iPad into the keyboard > > > dock. Wouldn't using the touchscreen knock it over? > > > > Why? First, all indications so far (not to mention experience with > > Apple's other multitouch devices) is that only a very light touch is > > needed to trigger actions, and second, if you've used an iPod dock, the > > device is moderately well-latched in place. > > > > I doubt if the development team failed to test use in that mode. > > I agree, and it's hard to imagine mouse support. At the same time the > idea of using a keyboard while needing to reach up to the screen for > everything aside from actual typing seems very inconvenient. Tradeoffs; *most* users, by *far* most of the time, won't be using an external keyboard. If it actually turns > There's > the question of stability if I'd need to tap anything near the top of > the screen, and the general awkwardness caused by reaching much farther > from the keyboard than I would for a mouse. I still think a mouse seems > unlikely given Apple's apparent approach, but I wonder just how > convenient it'll be to use the keyboard dock without one.
From: Tom Harrington on 29 Jan 2010 16:54
In article <fmoore-D3AA8C.13035729012010(a)mail.eternal-september.org>, Fred Moore <fmoore(a)gcfn.org> wrote: > In article <tph-355FFB.15381028012010(a)localhost>, > Tom Harrington <tph(a)pcisys.no.spam.dammit.net> wrote: > > > In article <fmoore-241B39.17163728012010(a)feeder.eternal-september.org>, > > Fred Moore <fmoore(a)gcfn.org> wrote: > > > > > Since you're a developer, let me ask you another question which you > > > might be able to answer: > > > > > > IIRC Steve Jobs said the iPhone OS is a version of Mac OS 10. Supposedly > > > the iPad OS is a version of the iPhone OS. Ergo, the iPad runs Mac OS > > > 10, despite using an ARM processor. Or is it that the OS in the iPhone > > > and/or iPad, while based on Mac OS 10, are so abstracted or reduced that > > > they are really different OSes? > > > > They're all really the same OS, but with vastly different user > > interfaces. The iPhone UI restricts access to the underlying OS much > > more than on a Mac, but it's the same OS under there, albeit not > > necessarily configured in the same way. > > So if one had access to the root level of the boot 'volume' of an iPhone > would we see UNIX directories such as bin, cores, private, and sbin? > Would those directories have the full complement of binaries that come > with a desktop installation of OS 10? I don't know, but I wouldn't expect it. Many of the complement of binaries in those directories would be entirely irrelevant. And anyway, the choice of top-level directories is just a (common) convention, it's not what defines the operating system. > I remember a previous discussion inquiring how one might run the iPhone > apps on a desktop Mac (and this sub-topic reappears elsewhere in this > thread). The answer previously was that Apple would have to assemble a > new translator/emulator because the iPhone apps were running on > non-Intel hardware. Well, hasn't Apple already had to have done this to > get OS 10 running on the different iPhone/Touch CPUs? No, they haven't. The iPhone and related hardware is not emulating Intel CPUs. The two CPUs use entirely different binaries, although compiled from more-or-less the same source. -- Tom "Tom" Harrington Independent Mac OS X developer since 2002 http://www.atomicbird.com/ |