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From: Paul J Gans on 21 Mar 2010 15:29 Darklight <nglennglen(a)netscape.net> wrote: >Paul J Gans wrote: >> Darklight <nglennglen(a)netscape.net> wrote: >>>Paul J Gans wrote: >> >>>> arnold <arnold(a)nto.com.invalid> wrote: >>>>>Chris Cox wrote: >>>> >>>>><snipped> >>>>>> >>>>>> Is KDE 4 ready? Well.... it's evolving. Takes a bit of >>>>>getting used >>>>>> to. It's different. >>>> >>>>>KDE 4 is just like Linux. it is, and will hopefully continue >>>>>to be, a work in progress. The world evolves. We just need to >>>>>learn to accept it. :-) >>>> >>>> I can't. We went from KDE 3 that worked 99% of the time >>>> to KDE 4 that not only doesn't come close to that, but made >>>> many changes just for the sake of making changes. >>>> >>>> Linux also has not progressed ever upwards. But the regressions >>>> have been small and short lasting. It is now quite stable and >>>> I expect it to "just work". >>>> >>>> I need KDE, after all this time, to "just work" as well. If it >>>> doesn't I am not dealing with an operating system, but with a toy. >>>> >>>> Like many others, I use Linux as a production system. I can't >>>> stop while KDE matures. >>>> >> >>>What does not work for you and what version of kde4 are you using. >> >>>Then i can tell you if it is working in the version of kde4 i have. >>>which is kde4.4.1 release 227 >> >> I am NOT working on kde4. I have systems that I must keep running >> and I need to do productive work on them. I sttaed this in >> my post. >> >> I'm certainly not adverse to learning a new interface. I've been >> learning new interfaces since 1955 when I first programmed a computer. >> No, that's not a typo. >> >> But I am adverse to a major change in what I have to do to configure >> the KDE 4 interface. Things are not where they used to be and >> some things don't (yet) work. >> >> I know that I will have to adapt to KDE 4. I am trying to delay >> that change and hoping that KDE 4 will mature in the interim. And >> I am also doing something I've never had to do before. I'm >> setting up a separate machine to run 11.2 so I can play with KDE 4 >> without screwing up production that I have to do. >> >> I should NOT have to do that with a real distribution. >> >Moving from kde3.5.10 to kde4 took an hour then 10 to 15 mins a day for the >rest. I had kde4 looking and running like kde3 in less than an hour. >a few tips when you do go to kde4 and open system settings. Make sure you >click on the advanced tab and have a look around. >sax2 is in the startup menu system -> configuration -> sax2 >to configure the desktop just right click on the desktop. >The only real difference between kde3 and kde4 is plasma. Which does not >need to be installed. and the desktop widgets. >kde4 trys to incorporate compiz as you will find out. Thank you. This will help me. -- --- Paul J. Gans
From: Paul J Gans on 21 Mar 2010 15:29 houghi <houghi(a)houghi.org.invalid> wrote: >Paul J Gans wrote: >> Don't worry. Houghi has been annoyed at me for several years now. >> I'm well aware of much that is available. >Yet you still keep using stuff you do not like. Why not use something >you DO like? I am. I'm using 11.1. -- --- Paul J. Gans
From: Paul J Gans on 21 Mar 2010 15:31 houghi <houghi(a)houghi.org.invalid> wrote: >Paul J Gans wrote: >>>The perception is very often like that. People install Linux for the >>>first time and think that what they is Linux. So if they start with KDE, >>>GNOME or KFCE that is what they think is Linux. >> >> Houghi, I was running linux a LONG TIME ago. I began with >> linux 0.92 using the SLS distribution. Back then you compiled >> your own kernel and much else as well. >Good for you. I was not talking about you. I was talking about people >who come to Linux now. >> Four or five years back I began to trust linux enough so that I >> stopped running things on our place's main unix systems and recompiled >> them for linux. I've been running production in my office ever >> since. >Why would you run something you do not like? >> My point, which I am sure you understand, is that if a distro >> changes its main window manager, they need to change it to >> something that *works* and to which there is a *clear* upgrade >> path. >A 7 year change is pretty standard. Oh wait, you update your office >every version as you don't use SLE but openSUSE. So instead of shelling >out the money for SLE it is much easier to moan and groan here. >> I have no doubt that KDE 4.x will work quite well for some value >> of x. What I do not like is that I have to sit at 11.1 for months >> if not longer waiting for that to happen. >For your work enviroment, just go to SLE or use a distro that has a >longer life expectancy then openSUSE does. >> openSUSE will NEVER be a major desktop contender if it continues >> to make its production users be beta testers. >Apparently the fact that something is a major contender is importand to >you. Otherwise you won't have mentioned it. Furthermore you do not like >that you are treated like a beta tester. (your words, not mine) >If that is your opinion, great. But why do you keep using something you >do not like the technical side of nor the political side. >> Go back a few more years than that and you will find that we had to >> do most *everything* on our own. Even to the point to tweaking X >> manually. >Go back a few more years and Linux did not even exist. Back than I was running an AT&T 3B2 using AT&T unix. >And your point >was? It has already been made too many times to repeat. -- --- Paul J. Gans
From: Paul J Gans on 21 Mar 2010 15:32 houghi <houghi(a)houghi.org.invalid> wrote: >Paul J Gans wrote: >>>The best way to learn about programs is using YaST Software Manager in >>>"RPM Groups". >> >> If you go back a while, you will recall that I was complaining >> about the fact that in runlevel 3 you did not get automounting of >> USB sticks. ><snip> >And that is related to the rest of the posting in what way? Or is it >again a way of moaning about openSUSE. Did other distributions have the >same problem? If it is something I need, I would use a distribution >where that error is not available. >What I do is not moan about what is bad, but look at what is good. For >that reason we don't use openSUSE on our servers, even though that would >have been the most convinient choice for me. >I am pretty curious why you keep on torturing yourself with openSUSE. I >would have ditched it long ago. There are a LOT of other good >distributions out there (No, not Ubuntu). >Starts to make you sound like a grumpy old man. I *am* a grumpy old man. ;-) -- --- Paul J. Gans
From: Peter Köhlmann on 21 Mar 2010 16:04
Paul J Gans wrote: > houghi <houghi(a)houghi.org.invalid> wrote: >>Paul J Gans wrote: >>> My basic point is that if openSUSE wants to be taken seriously by >>> computer *users* it can't do this to them. Few here seem to get it. >>> As a toy I'm perfectly happy having a new interface every release. >>> But I'd then not be using openSUSE as if it was a real operating >>> system. > >>We get it. You don't like openSUSE. Then why do you keep using it. >>Please start using something else. > > I never said that. What I said was that I did not like the > switch from a relatively stable KDE 3.5 to the relatively > buggy 4.x. My view is that KDE 3.5 should have been kept alive > for another year or so while 4.x worked out its bugs. > > Both were included with 11.1. I saw no problem with that at all > and had I had a test machine available then would probably have > installed 4.x on it just to get used to it. You can still install it for 11.2 > Both should have been included in 11.2 and possibly in 11.3 as > well. > No, I think it should not be included. The days of KDE3 are over -- Individualists unite! |