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From: Paul J Gans on 21 Mar 2010 00:43 houghi <houghi(a)houghi.org.invalid> wrote: >David Bolt wrote: >> I generally don't like it quite so wide. Full screen, konsole is 271x68 >> and that's just a touch too wide and makes it easier to lose track of >> which line you're reading. Then again, I'm now using a 24" screen. Even >> with a 20" screen, I'd still not use konsole with so wide a window. I >> find that the present width of 131x68 is plenty wide enough. >With `ps aux` it is nicer to see the whole commandline. Oh and for those >of you who use top, try out htop. It is really nice. Look at the bottom >on the function keys and what they do. Setting it up is pretty trivial >abd I especially like the option 'Highlight program "basename"' Very nice. Thank you. -- --- Paul J. Gans
From: Paul J Gans on 21 Mar 2010 00:46 Bernd Felsche <berfel(a)innovative.iinet.net.au> wrote: >houghi <houghi(a)houghi.org.invalid> wrote: >>Paul J Gans wrote: >>> I have only played with Gnome on a portable and I have not done >>> anything serious with it. >>> It is the realization that I may well be left high and dry >>> that has led to my minor upset over this. >>You do not like KDE. You do not like GNOME. As there is nothing else, >>just use Windows. >How very, very cruel! >Wrong, fortunately. Don't worry. Houghi has been annoyed at me for several years now. I'm well aware of much that is available. -- --- Paul J. Gans
From: Paul J Gans on 21 Mar 2010 00:54 houghi <houghi(a)houghi.org.invalid> wrote: >Bernd Felsche wrote: >>>You do not like KDE. You do not like GNOME. As there is nothing else, >>>just use Windows. >> >> How very, very cruel! >It is not that bad. I heard Windows is alnmost ready for the desktop. >;-) >> Wrong, fortunately. >The perception is very often like that. People install Linux for the >first time and think that what they is Linux. So if they start with KDE, >GNOME or KFCE that is what they think is Linux. Houghi, I was running linux a LONG TIME ago. I began with linux 0.92 using the SLS distribution. Back then you compiled your own kernel and much else as well. So I've been using linux for a long long time. I've run SLS, Slackware, RedHat, and now SuSE --> openSUSE. Four or five years back I began to trust linux enough so that I stopped running things on our place's main unix systems and recompiled them for linux. I've been running production in my office ever since. What I want is a system that just works. I could have one by going to one of the BSD releases (I ran BSD before linux was released to the public), or perhaps Debian. My point, which I am sure you understand, is that if a distro changes its main window manager, they need to change it to something that *works* and to which there is a *clear* upgrade path. I have no doubt that KDE 4.x will work quite well for some value of x. What I do not like is that I have to sit at 11.1 for months if not longer waiting for that to happen. openSUSE will NEVER be a major desktop contender if it continues to make its production users be beta testers. >Let us go back a few years. You installed Linux. On Linux you had X11. >On top of that some Manager. There you would have programs you could >run. So for the user it was pretty easy. You selected what desktop >program you wanted and ran any program you liked. Standard instalation >installed those programs/ Go back a few more years than that and you will find that we had to do most *everything* on our own. Even to the point to tweaking X manually. >Forward to now. You install KDE and get one program. Install GNOME and >you get another. XFCE yet something else. This enhances the perceptiona >dn confusion that you can only run KDE programs on KDE. >So if people do not like k3b, they might not like KDE as that might be a >program they will need all the time. For these people KDE will not be an >option. So they try GNOME and there they do not like gqview, so GNOME is >not an option. >Very rarely do I hear of people who run gqview under KDE or k3b under >GNOME. As if people think that is forbidden. >So, yet you are right. It is wrong. It is just that many people can't be >botherd to find out if it is wrong as they mix up (understandibaly) the >programs they run with the desktop. >And I can't even be botherd how this devide hurts the Open Source >community. At least 3 groups of people making the same kind of program. >To me a waste of resources. -- --- Paul J. Gans
From: Paul J Gans on 21 Mar 2010 01:00 houghi <houghi(a)houghi.org.invalid> wrote: >Darrell Stec wrote: >> Ha! I upgraded because I needed a different version of gqview to view a >> particular website. >Which one and why? As far as I know I never had an image that I culd not >see. Also I do not use gqview to access sites directly. I leech them and >then look at the images. >>> Very rarely do I hear of people who run gqview under KDE or k3b under >>> GNOME. As if people think that is forbidden. >> >> While k3b is a default application during installation, I think the problem >> is different. I think for people coming from Windows they are simply not >> aware of the options they have. >That is indeed the problem and in my opinion a great part of the fault >is the fact that KDE and GNOME (and XFCE) are treated as different kinds >of Linux programs. >> I may be the exception but I probably have five or six CD/DVD manipulative >> programs, and the same number of graphics application, and even more >> programming development applications and web page design applications (an >> music and ....). >SDame here and once you get away from what KDE or GNOME or XFCE or any >other want to force you to use, you suddenly have a HUGE amount of >programs you can try and use. >> I think if the application is there in the menu, new Linux users will >> eventually get around to using them. I now I occasionally just run down the >> entire list of programs in the repositories just to find interesting stuff. >> Another part of the problem is that many people only have the three standard >> repositories. I have many more, but caution is needed when installing >> applications from other repositories. >On the other hand it is not all bad. openSUSe has a great integration of >KDE and GNOME programs. Whwre I hear sometimes about problems when >installing a program. I have not heard that with openSUSe as long as it >is from the openSUSE repo. >The best way to learn about programs is using YaST Software Manager in >"RPM Groups". If you go back a while, you will recall that I was complaining about the fact that in runlevel 3 you did not get automounting of USB sticks. Up to that point I booted into runlevel 3 because I run most of my programs from the command line and did not need to to into X. But I also needed the convenience of mounting USB sticks automatically. So given the bug (which to my knowlege has NEVER been fixed) I gave up on runlevel 3 and booted instead to runlevel 5 and popped a konsole window. Not much more work at all. My point: I don't NEED to be in X all the time or even most of the time. But I'm pushed to do that by bugs. Now I'm being kept from 11.2 by more bugs. I will admit to not being totally happy about this. -- --- Paul J. Gans
From: Darklight on 21 Mar 2010 05:08
Paul J Gans wrote: > Darklight <nglennglen(a)netscape.net> wrote: >>Paul J Gans wrote: > >>> arnold <arnold(a)nto.com.invalid> wrote: >>>>Chris Cox wrote: >>> >>>><snipped> >>>>> >>>>> Is KDE 4 ready? Well.... it's evolving. Takes a bit of >>>>getting used >>>>> to. It's different. >>> >>>>KDE 4 is just like Linux. it is, and will hopefully continue >>>>to be, a work in progress. The world evolves. We just need to >>>>learn to accept it. :-) >>> >>> I can't. We went from KDE 3 that worked 99% of the time >>> to KDE 4 that not only doesn't come close to that, but made >>> many changes just for the sake of making changes. >>> >>> Linux also has not progressed ever upwards. But the regressions >>> have been small and short lasting. It is now quite stable and >>> I expect it to "just work". >>> >>> I need KDE, after all this time, to "just work" as well. If it >>> doesn't I am not dealing with an operating system, but with a toy. >>> >>> Like many others, I use Linux as a production system. I can't >>> stop while KDE matures. >>> > >>What does not work for you and what version of kde4 are you using. > >>Then i can tell you if it is working in the version of kde4 i have. >>which is kde4.4.1 release 227 > > I am NOT working on kde4. I have systems that I must keep running > and I need to do productive work on them. I sttaed this in > my post. > > I'm certainly not adverse to learning a new interface. I've been > learning new interfaces since 1955 when I first programmed a computer. > No, that's not a typo. > > But I am adverse to a major change in what I have to do to configure > the KDE 4 interface. Things are not where they used to be and > some things don't (yet) work. > > I know that I will have to adapt to KDE 4. I am trying to delay > that change and hoping that KDE 4 will mature in the interim. And > I am also doing something I've never had to do before. I'm > setting up a separate machine to run 11.2 so I can play with KDE 4 > without screwing up production that I have to do. > > I should NOT have to do that with a real distribution. > Moving from kde3.5.10 to kde4 took an hour then 10 to 15 mins a day for the rest. I had kde4 looking and running like kde3 in less than an hour. a few tips when you do go to kde4 and open system settings. Make sure you click on the advanced tab and have a look around. sax2 is in the startup menu system -> configuration -> sax2 to configure the desktop just right click on the desktop. The only real difference between kde3 and kde4 is plasma. Which does not need to be installed. and the desktop widgets. kde4 trys to incorporate compiz as you will find out. |