Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 2 Jul 2008 09:08 On Jul 1, 11:59 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 1, 1:04 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 1, 12:20 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 30, 1:19�pm, Enkidu <fox_rgf...(a)trashmail.net> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in news:22183802-cf28-4305-af11- > >>>>>> 7d254b106...(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > >>>>>>> You are the one being deliberately obtuse. � The existence of the > >>>>>>> tunnel validates many other things said in the Bible about the > >>>>>>> Assyrian invasion of Judea. > >>>>>> "The Hobbit" talks of ale, axes, and forests which we know exist. Does that > >>>>>> validate Orcs, Elves, Dwarves, trolls, magic rings, walking trees and Tom > >>>>>> Bombadil? > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Enkidu AA#2165 � > >>>>>> EAC Chaplain and ordained minister, > >>>>>> ULC, Modesto, CA > >>>>>> Doesn't anything socialistic make you want to throw up? Like great public > >>>>>> schools, or health insurance for all? > >>>>>> � � �-Kurt Vonnegut > >>>>> Why don't you decide for yourself?  You were the one who thought of > >>>>> it. > >>>> Why don't you try to defend your assertions? How can we know we can > >>>> trust what you say?- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> It does not matter to me what you trust.  You decide what you are > >>> going to trust. > >> If you can't provide any sensible reason to believe your fanciful > >> claims, then I guess we're done.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Fanciful claims?  I said that the Jews dug a tunnel as a conduit for > > water between Gihon spring and the pool of Siloam.  Why do you think > > that is a fanciful claim? > > That is not a fanciful claim. You and I both know that I'm referring to > your supernatural claims. Those would be the ones you're completely > unable to support with any evidence.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I have not made any claims to atheists except that the Jews dug a tunnel to be used as a conduit for water, and the Assyrians built a ramp out of dirt to get over the city wall at Lachish. To an atheist these might seem like supernatural claims because there were actually people working to accomplish both of these tasks instead of just giving orders, criticism, etc., the way atheists do. Since atheists have been unable to visualize these two events, there is no reason to proceed on to anything more complex. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 2 Jul 2008 09:11 On Jul 2, 12:01 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 1, 8:57�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >>news:331f3679-c6d3-4823-a60e-ab10d5db820e(a)2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com... > > >> Well, Adolph Eichmann felt much the same way about the final > >> solution. > > >> ========= > > >> Now that's definitely Godwin's Law ... > > > Yes, Godwin's law is a rule made by atheists forbidding any reference > > to the Nazi Party. > > Your total inability to learn should be a serious concern to you! You're > still wrong about that. No, I am not. The Nazi Party did a lot of things that atheists would like to do again. So if it is forbidden to talk about the Nazi Party and what they did, then people will forget about it, and there will be no outcry when you do the same kind of things. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 2 Jul 2008 09:19 On Jul 2, 12:07 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 1, 1:13�pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>> atheists.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Well, I am sure you will not. �What would their reaction be to > >>> discover that the apostle Paul had identified the theory of evolution > >>> as a fable? > >> They would accuse you of lying too. It's the only sensible reaction to > >> your lies.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Well, I think that is exactly right.  Atheists accuse anyone who > > disagrees with their atheistic doctrines of lying. > > Not so much. I will call someone a liar when they lie to me. Call me old > fashioned. Like that time you told me that I didn't believe in the > tunnel. That was a lie. Or where you said that a post was made up-thread > claiming that nothing in the Bible was true. Another lie. Need I continue?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, it may be that you do believe in the tunnel, but if it was to the advantage of atheists to deny its existence, then you would say it does not exist. The tunnel does not present that kind of opportunity because it is well documented, so you pretend that it exists but does not mean anything. You do not need to continue. I would personally like to see you just talk to other atheists. But I think you will continue to post to me. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 2 Jul 2008 09:26 On Jul 2, 12:09 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 1, 1:14 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 1, 12:34 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 30, 12:25 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 6:06�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > >>>>>>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact > >>>>>>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > >>>>>>>>>> So? > >>>>>>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> I never have believed in evolution. �I think it is a fable, just as > >>>>>>>>> Paul said it was. > >>>>>>>> Paul knew nothing about it. You mock the Bible with such silly > >>>>>>>> interpretations of it.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> I just believe what Paul said.  You seem a little upset that I do not > >>>>>>> believe your fable. > >>>>>> Can you please identify what he said about it? Please?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> 2 Tim 4:3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound > >>>>> doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves > >>>>> teachers, having itching ears; > >>>>> 4  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be > >>>>> turned unto fables. > >>>> I can't see any mention of evolution. I can't even see any description > >>>> of the theory, or even a theistic strawman description. Can you help me > >>>> out? You made a claim that seems difficult to substantiate.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Well, I think we are getting into subject matter that is too difficult > >>> for you.  Maybe we should go back to Hezekiah's tunnel. > >> I'm not struggling, maybe you could point out the verse where evolution > >> is singled out. Maybe he's talking about the germ theory of disease. I'm > >> sure you believe that demons are behind illness, rather than pathogens.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Well, Paul said that in the last days, men would be turned to fables > > to explain things.  So today we see science explaining most things by > > fables. > > Ah, so you were telling another lie. No explicit mention of evolution. > I'm sorry for you that science is making your religion more difficult to > square with reality. It must be uncomfortable.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, Hezekiah was probably uncomfortable when the sundial went backward ten degrees, but he was the one who requested it. Actually, science today would have an explanation for this that would satisfy everyone, which is that Hezekiah was hallucinating, but on the other hand, having studied relativity of time, I would have to say that Hezekiah's interpretation of time on that particular day was just as valid as anyone else's and better suited to his own personal needs. So that sort of thing does not bother me in the least. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 2 Jul 2008 09:27
On Jul 2, 12:10 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 1, 1:15 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 1, 12:34 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 30, 12:25 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 6:06�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > >>>>>>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact > >>>>>>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > >>>>>>>>>> So? > >>>>>>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> I never have believed in evolution. �I think it is a fable, just as > >>>>>>>>> Paul said it was. > >>>>>>>> Paul knew nothing about it. You mock the Bible with such silly > >>>>>>>> interpretations of it.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> I just believe what Paul said.  You seem a little upset that I do not > >>>>>>> believe your fable. > >>>>>> Can you please identify what he said about it? Please?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> 2 Tim 4:3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound > >>>>> doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves > >>>>> teachers, having itching ears; > >>>>> 4  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be > >>>>> turned unto fables. > >>>> I can't see any mention of evolution. I can't even see any description > >>>> of the theory, or even a theistic strawman description. Can you help me > >>>> out? You made a claim that seems difficult to substantiate.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Certainly.  This is easy to resolve.  Just wait until after the > >>> resurrection, and ask Paul in person what he was writing about. > >> As has been said: silly troll.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Well, I do not know why that would not be acceptable to you, but it > > seems to me it would resolve the issue. > > Hello? ... Hello? Paul? ..... hel-lo? .........- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Your faith seems a little weak. Robert B. Winn |