Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 22:42 On Jul 4, 9:29�am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > news:2491245c-d5d7-4548-a60c-460baa59d9b4(a)z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > > > > >> Sin is what you think it is. > > > I think sin is wilful disobedience to God. > > Robert B. Winn > > In that case, I've never committed a sin. > God has never personally told me to do anything, so how is it possible for > me to disobey him? > > -- > Steve O > a.a. #2240 (Apatheist Chapter) > B.A.A.W.A. > Convicted by Earthquack, > Exempt from purgatory by papal indulgence > "I have a miraculous picture of Jesus - if you look really closely at the > face, you can see a burnt tortilla" Well, Joesf Stalin said something very similar when he killed 12 million people. Atheists justify anything they do by saying there is no God. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 22:50 On Jul 4, 10:39 am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 4, 3:03�am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > >> Alex W. wrote: > >>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>news:9fadb87c-6364-49eb-9ca6-c8fd555f6cd3(a)a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com.... > >>> On Jul 3, 6:05?am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>news:f807e4d0-b40f-4cb8-bb4c-12f00021898d(a)34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com.... > >>>> Well, the scriptures say that the wicked would be more miserable in > >>>> the presence of God than with the devils in hell. > >>>> =========== > >>>> In other words, since we are all sinful by definition, the smart choice is > >>>> to aim for hell in the first place. ?Nice morality .... > >>> No, the smart choice is to repent of sins. �However, atheists claim > >>> that nothing they do is sin, so they are not going to repent. > >> Which to me indicates you have no idea what sin, or repentance, is. > > >>> ========== > >>> Sin is a social construct. �It exists irrespective of the god(s) worshipped > >>> ... or not, as the case may be.- Hide quoted text - > >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Sin is wilful disobedience of God. > > Well thats OK then,. God has never told me to do anything, or not to do > anything. > > I guess I am sin free then. > >  Repentance is confessing and > > > > > forsaking sin. > > Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text - > Well, work out your own salvation. No one can do it for you. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 22:52 On Jul 4, 11:01�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > news:70bb7662-af68-463b-9d30-27afbf90ba77(a)x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > > Sin is wilful disobedience of God. �Repentance is confessing and > forsaking sin. > > ============== > > Since sin exists across all cultures and religions -- and even in a > completely secular context -- it certainly goes beyond any single god's > obsession with the minutiae of our lifestyle. Well, you are going to have to work out your own salvation. All I can do is tell you what the scriptures say. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 22:54 On Jul 4, 11:49�am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > Richard Meredith wrote: > > In article <g4lbtl$9p...(a)cam-news1.cambridge.arm.com>, > > chris.sh...(a)arm.nospam.com (Chris Shore) wrote: > > >> *From:* "Chris Shore" <chris.sh...(a)arm.nospam.com> > >> *Date:* Fri, 4 Jul 2008 15:25:57 +0100 > > >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>news:b5ef084b-b578-47aa-b9bf-1285e1588579(a)27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com. > >> .. > > >>> Well, there is an earthen ramp that the Assyrian army built to get > >>> over the city wall at Lachish. �Atheists do not believe in the > >> earthen > >>> ramp. > >> Of course atheists believe in the ramp. It exists and its existence > >> cannot > >> be denied. But the existence of the ramp does not prove that the > >> entire > >> OT is fact, nor does it prove anything, anything at all, about God. > > >> What is your point in pointing out the existence of this thing? > > > There is no point. Usenet discussions about religion are seldom anything > > more than an opportunity for all sorts of people to restate their > > particular set of beliefs loudly and vociferously while paying little > > attention and less respect to the views of anyone else. > > Oh come ON, poor old Robbo has been given a test of faith: he has to go > up against satanic atheists and all sorts of sinners to test his > beliefs. We have to at least give him a run for his money. > > He is obviously fairly deluded. > > Its just a way of passing the time..- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Actually I was discussing the Galilean transformation equations with scientists before atheists started posting to me in sci.physics.relativity. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 23:06
On Jul 4, 3:22 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 3, 11:28 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 3, 1:55 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jul 2, 8:35 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jul 2, 2:03 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 11:59 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 1:04 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 12:20 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 30, 1:19�pm, Enkidu <fox_rgf...(a)trashmail.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in news:22183802-cf28-4305-af11- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7d254b106...(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are the one being deliberately obtuse. � The existence of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnel validates many other things said in the Bible about the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assyrian invasion of Judea. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Hobbit" talks of ale, axes, and forests which we know exist. Does that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> validate Orcs, Elves, Dwarves, trolls, magic rings, walking trees and Tom > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bombadil? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Enkidu AA#2165 � > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EAC Chaplain and ordained minister, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ULC, Modesto, CA > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doesn't anything socialistic make you want to throw up? Like great public > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schools, or health insurance for all? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> � � �-Kurt Vonnegut > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you decide for yourself?  You were the one who thought of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you try to defend your assertions? How can we know we can > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> trust what you say?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>> It does not matter to me what you trust.  You decide what you are > >>>>>>>>>>>>> going to trust. > >>>>>>>>>>>> If you can't provide any sensible reason to believe your fanciful > >>>>>>>>>>>> claims, then I guess we're done.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>> Fanciful claims?  I said that the Jews dug a tunnel as a conduit for > >>>>>>>>>>> water between Gihon spring and the pool of Siloam.  Why do you think > >>>>>>>>>>> that is a fanciful claim? > >>>>>>>>>> That is not a fanciful claim. You and I both know that I'm referring to > >>>>>>>>>> your supernatural claims. Those would be the ones you're completely > >>>>>>>>>> unable to support with any evidence.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> I have not made any claims to atheists except that the Jews dug a > >>>>>>>>> tunnel to be used as a conduit for water, and the Assyrians built a > >>>>>>>>> ramp out of dirt to get over the city wall at Lachish.  To an atheist > >>>>>>>>> these might seem like supernatural claims because there were actually > >>>>>>>>> people working to accomplish both of these tasks instead of just > >>>>>>>>> giving orders, criticism, etc., the way atheists do.  Since atheists > >>>>>>>>> have been unable to visualize these two events, there is no reason to > >>>>>>>>> proceed on to anything more complex. > >>>>>>>> Then we're in total agreement. A tunnel was dug a long time ago and it > >>>>>>>> got mentioned in some ancient writings, providing absolutlely no support > >>>>>>>> for any supernatural claims. > >>>>>>>> So why all the posts?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> You do not seem to be visualizing it very well.  The Assyrians came > >>>>>>> into Judea with an army of hundreds of thousands on their way home > >>>>>>> after taking a big chunk of Egypt.  Judea was a little dot in the > >>>>>>> middle of the Assyrian kingdom, which extended from the Caspian Sea to > >>>>>>> Egypt.  So why was there still a Kingdom of Judea when King > >>>>>>> Sennacherib got back to his capitol city of Ninevah?  Sennacherib > >>>>>>> himself says there was on the column he had erected in Ninevah. > >>>>>> Or so the story goes.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> What do you mean so the story goes?  The column erected by Sennacherib > >>>>> in Ninevah is still there today.  He plainly says on it that Hezekiah > >>>>> paid tribute to him, and he was such a nice guy that he just went home > >>>>> after he got the money. > >>>> Great. Sennacherib went home and left Jerusalem unsacked. That doesn't > >>>> mean that it was due to the angel of the lord slaughtering 185,000 > >>>> troops in a night. > >>>> Why do you favour the oddly magical Biblical account over Sennacherib's?- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> 186,000 troops.  Chaldean historians of the same time said that the > >>> Assyrian army died of plague while besieging Jerusalem, and > >>> Sennacherib fled in great fear back to his own city of Ninevah. > >>> Sennacherib made no mention of losing his army on the column he > >>> erected.  He seems to have pretended to his fellow Assyrians that the > >>> army was still somewhere doing something, but his own two sons > >>> murdered him, probably because they were upset about him losing the > >>> army. > >> So where are God's footprints in all of this? Arguments for both sides > >> can be made without invoking magic.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Well, from a military standpoint, the Jews had no chance whatsoever > > against the Assyrians.  But when it was all over, it was the Assyrian > > king who lost everything, including his own life.  So I would say, let > > atheists of today explain it their way, and let Christians explain it > > their way.  The Jews explained it by saying that an angel of the Lord > > killed 186,000 Assyrian troops.  That is a matter of record.  It is > > recorded in three different books of the Old Testament. > > The Old Testament isn't particularly compelling evidence, it suggests > that there was a global flood and special creation over the course of > six days. It might be a "matter of record" on some things, but it is > definitely not on others.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, I am sure the Jews feel bad that you do not like the Old Testament, but it says what it says. It says in three different books that an angel of the Lord went through the camp of the Assyrians and slew 186,000 soldiers. Robert B. Winn |