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From: Gunner Asch on 25 Nov 2009 23:14 On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:11:15 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins <kb1dal(a)gmail.com> wrote: >On Nov 25, 8:36�pm, Gunner Asch <gun...(a)NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote: >> > >> Piva! >> >> Gunner > >In most of that part of Europe it's BEER. Not in Soumi. <G> Gunner "Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" Unknown Usnet Poster Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls. Keyton
From: Tauno Voipio on 26 Nov 2009 02:30 Gunner Asch wrote: > > Hell..Finn is easy > > Noh, moniko sinun sedist�si on tehnyt itsemurhan t�n� vuonna? > None - they have died of old age years ago, my father is the only one of five left. > Piva! If you're looking for beer, it looks like that in Slavic languages, but ours is olut (�lle in Estonian), obviously from the Scandinavian �l. -- -Tauno
From: Tauno Voipio on 26 Nov 2009 13:07 Rune Allnor wrote: > On 25 Nov, 21:46, Tauno Voipio <tauno.voi...(a)notused.fi.invalid> > wrote: >> Rune Allnor wrote: > >>>> For me, with Swedish as second native language, Norwegian sounds >>>> like funny Swedish, >>> *Formal* Norwegian (highly influenced by the dialects >>> in the south-east central area, near Oslo) sounds like >>> Donald Duck on helium. People with that kind of native >>> dialect would struggle very hard to be taken seriously >>> while speaking any non-native language. >>> My native dialect seems to be a somewhat better staring >>> point for speaking English, and particularly Italian. >> Bokm�l / nynorsk? > > Those are the two *written* forms of Norwegian: Bokm�l > (litteraly "the language of/from the books") was based on > the Danish written language established by the Danish > government during the "400-year night", when Norway was > a subsidiary to the Danish crown between ~1380 and 1814. > The civil servants had all been trained in Denmark, and > wrote Danish fluently, so the obvious thing to do was to > keep business as usual. > > Since then the 'official' written Norwegian language was > dominated by the heritage from the Danish civil service. > To this day, some 200 years later, it is very little > difference between written Norwegian Bokm�l and written > Danish. A non-native speaker of both the two languages > would need to know what to look for, to see the difference. > > However, bokm�l is strictly a written language. Some > people *claim* to speak bokm�l, but in reality only > speaks a normalized dialect that is the closest to the > written language, but still far enough away that they > are two different forms. > > In the nationalromantic era that followed the 1814 > emancipation from the Danes there was a movement to > establish a home-grown Norwegian written language, > to replace the heritage from the Danes. > > The idea was to compensate for the Danish influence, > represented by the civil service and the urban > establishment, by basing the new written language on > the rural spoken dialects. Unfortunately, there was an > over-compensation, in that the person in charge, > Ivar Aasen, went to the furthest, most remote valleys > he could possibly reach with 1820-30s communications. > > So he ended up doubly alienating his intended audience, > partially by using the most obscure rural non-Danish > forms he could possibly find; partially by restricting > his data to the areas near the south-east central, > leaving a lot of the more remote areas, particularly > around the coast, uncatered for. > > Lots of people who might have been positive to the > efforts were alienated by this over-compensation, > leaving the population in two entrenched camps, > fiercly disagreeing with each other. After a lot of > hubbub, this written language has now become what > is known as "nynorsk", "New Norwegian". > > Repercussions of the ancient battles are stil raging, > as kids think nynorsk (which in these days is based on > an average of the spoken Norwegian dialects) is "grautm�l", > "porrage language", while they at the same time are > battling with the not at all insignificant (well, all > out irrational) quirks, twists and turns associated > with making an artifical written language match up with > their spoken languages. > > As for myself, I speak a normalized (probably more > so than I am aware) form of a northern dialect, that > matches quite nicely with the present norm of nynorsk. > (Not that it matters: I still write bokm�l, as does > some 80-90% of the population.) My dialect is non-typical > Norwegian in that the 'melody' (prosidy?) matches quite > well with both English (well, at least compared to most > Norwegian dialects). > > Many years ago I stayed a few months in Italy, with > another Norwegian who spoke one of the dominant > Norwegian dialects. People who heard us talk among > ourselfs could not understand how we could possibly > be talking the same language. During that stay I > learned that the melody/prosidy my non-normalized > Norwegian dialect is particularly well matched up > with the Italian langauge. > > Rune Thanks, Rune. I'm afraid that all the dialects sound like funny Swedish to me ... -- -Tauno
From: Frank-Stefan Müller on 27 Nov 2009 02:57 Rune Allnor schrieb: > On 25 Nov, 00:23, Jim Wilkins <kb1...(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On Nov 24, 2:52 pm, Eric Jacobsen <eric.jacob...(a)ieee.org> wrote: >> >>> On 11/24/2009 12:37 PM, Marte Schwarz wrote: >>>> Hi Jim, >>> ... >>> It's funny that a lot of the non-conversational words that I still >>> remember are technical stuff like that: vergasser = carburetor, >>> einspritz = fuel injection. I guess I've always been a car guy. ;) >>> -- >>> Eric Jacobsen >>> Minister of Algorithms >>> Abineau Communicationshttp://www.abineau.com >> I've waited 36 years for an excuse to drop "Zundverteilerkopf" into a >> conversation. > > 'Verteilerkopf' = 'distributor head' is obvious. Can't > figure out 'Zund' without a dictionary? > > Rune Hi Rune, I know the word but I never really knew the exact meaning. Looked it up at http://www.freedic.net/index.php, it means "Ehrfurchteinfl�ssend" Awe-inspiring, it sounds very old fashioned in german. greetings Frank PS don�t forget to Z�nd the Umlaut!
From: Andreas Huennebeck on 27 Nov 2009 03:43
Rune Allnor wrote: > On 25 Nov, 21:46, Tauno Voipio <tauno.voi...(a)notused.fi.invalid> > wrote: >> Rune Allnor wrote: > >> >> For me, with Swedish as second native language, Norwegian sounds >> >> like funny Swedish, For me as a german, who learned some Norwegian 18 years ago (and using it in regular vacations) and who currently learns Swedish, Swedish sounds like fuzzy Norwegian ;-) >> Bokm�l / nynorsk? > > Those are the two *written* forms of Norwegian: Bokm�l > (litteraly "the language of/from the books") was based on [..] Takk, det var veldig interessant. > As for myself, I speak a normalized (probably more > so than I am aware) form of a northern dialect, that > matches quite nicely with the present norm of nynorsk. Yes; I've noticed that people in northern Norway use words from Nynorsk (as far as I'm able to understand). bye Andreas -- Andreas H�nnebeck | email: acmh(a)gmx.de ----- privat ---- | www : http://www.huennebeck-online.de Fax/Anrufbeantworter: 0721/151-284301 GPG-Key: http://www.huennebeck-online.de/public_keys/andreas.asc PGP-Key: http://www.huennebeck-online.de/public_keys/pgp_andreas.asc |