Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: Smiler on 2 Jul 2008 20:16 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:102d04c5-163d-4216-a0d1-b548d2732cf9(a)d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... On Jul 2, 12:54 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > news:0654196a-182b-4495-9322-a7e488df4f01(a)56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > On Jul 1, 1:04 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >>news:13339a2a-8599-41b2-ac22-cb13fde245ce(a)l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > > >> > On Jul 1, 3:58 am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >> >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >> >>news:12bd9c5a-fc7c-437c-862b-33e48b270a59(a)m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > > >> >> > On Jun 30, 6:37 pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >> >> >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >> >> >>news:6b4ffde3-6dd2-42e1-ae8b-31dca39a4aee(a)f24g2000prh.googlegroups.com... > > >> >> >> > On Jun 30, 1:03 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> > >> >> >> > wrote: > >> >> >> >> rbwinn wrote: > >> >> >> >> > On Jun 29, 11:50 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> > >> >> >> >> > wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> rbwinn wrote: > >> >> >> >> >>> On Jun 29, 10:57?am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >> >> >> >> >>>>news:1c31d316-2b91-43f6-b6c0-3fb4dbf97774(a)z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com... > >> >> >> >> >>>> On Jun 29, 12:13 am, BuddyThunder > >> >> >> >> >>>> <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> > >> >> >> >> >>>> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >> >> >> >> >>>>>> On Jun 28, 2:15 pm, BuddyThunder > >> >> >> >> >>>>>> <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> > >> >> >> >> >>>>>> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:04?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:01:05 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:21?am, BuddyThunder > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> ... > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> No, you were trying to hedge your bets. ?You do > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> not > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> believe > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> in > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> faith, > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> but you are "on the edge of faith", so that > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> counts > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> in > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> case > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> you > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> need to > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> have faith. ?I know how atheists think. > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Why would I need to hedge my bets? I believe in > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> faith, > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> I > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> just > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> don't > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> think it's rational. And believe me, you really > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> *don't* > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> know > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> how > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> atheists think.- Hide quoted text - > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> I know far better than atheists how they think. > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> ?They > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> have > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> made a > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> wrong choice, so their options are limited. > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Your lies are indefensible. You celebrate the evil > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> that > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> you > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> have > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> fallen > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> into. > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> I thought you atheists did not believe evil exists. > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> If > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> there > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> is > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> no > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>> devil, everything is good, isn't it? > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> Evil sounds like a religious concept to me, but why > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> would > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> you > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> think > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> that > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> we can't differentiate right from wrong. Another > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> strawman? > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> We seem to be able to discuss without lying, can you?- > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> Hide > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> quoted > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> text - > >> >> >> >> >>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> >> >> >> >>>>>> Sure. A while back you were saying that there was > >> >> >> >> >>>>>> nothing > >> >> >> >> >>>>>> wrong > >> >> >> >> >>>>>> with > >> >> >> >> >>>>>> killing children before they are born. So are you > >> >> >> >> >>>>>> saying > >> >> >> >> >>>>>> that > >> >> >> >> >>>>>> killing > >> >> >> >> >>>>>> children before they are born is a good thing? > >> >> >> >> >>>>> Where did I say that? Can you show me, or is that > >> >> >> >> >>>>> another > >> >> >> >> >>>>> lie? > >> >> >> >> >>>>> Abortion > >> >> >> >> >>>>> is deeply unpleasant, however I don't think it should be > >> >> >> >> >>>>> banned. > >> >> >> >> >>>>> They're > >> >> >> >> >>>>> not children yet, by the way.- Hide quoted text - > >> >> >> >> >>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> >> >> >> >>>> Not children yet? ?What do you think they are? > >> >> >> >> >>>> =============== > >> >> >> >> >>>> Technically speaking, they are parasites living off a > >> >> >> >> >>>> grown > >> >> >> >> >>>> female.- > >> >> >> >> >>>> Hide quoted text - > >> >> >> >> >>>> - Show quoted text - > >> >> >> >> >>> Well, thank you for your answer, Alex. So human beings are > >> >> >> >> >>> nothing > >> >> >> >> >>> except parasites in atheist theology. > >> >> >> >> >> Read it again, this time trying to understand as you go.- > >> >> >> >> >> Hide > >> >> >> >> >> quoted > >> >> >> >> >> text - > > >> >> >> >> > I understood it exactly the first time I read it. > > >> >> >> >> Then why the misrepresentation of what was said? No > >> >> >> >> implication > >> >> >> >> was > >> >> >> >> made > >> >> >> >> that "human beings are nothing except parasites". You > >> >> >> >> misunderstood, > >> >> >> >> or > >> >> >> >> lied. Which was it?- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> >> >> > This guy says that a baby in its mother's womb is nothing but a > >> >> >> > parasite on the mother, and you say, No implication was made > >> >> >> > that > >> >> >> > "human beings are nothing except parasites". I believe that if > >> >> >> > something is a parasite when it is in its mother's womb, then > >> >> >> > it > >> >> >> > is > >> >> >> > a > >> >> >> > parasite after it leaves its mother's womb. A parasite is never > >> >> >> > anything except a parasite. > >> >> >> > Robert B. Winn > > >> >> >> Please try an educate yourself and read up a little on the > >> >> >> parasitical > >> >> >> nature of the cytoblast before you really make a fool of > >> >> >> yourself. > >> >> >> Again. > > >> >> > Why would I want to read what some atheist says about a cytoblast? > >> >> > Robert B. Winn > > >> >> What makes you think that only atheists have studied fetal > >> >> development > >> >> or > >> >> agree with the parasitical nature of the cytoblast? > >> >> Could it perhaps be your ignorance on the subject? > > >> > The cytoblast is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. That means > >> > it is not a parasite. > >> > Robert B. Winn > > >> Parasites do exactly what they are supposed to do, and you think that > >> means > >> that they are not parasites? > >> What a strange fellow you are. > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Well, I am sorry I said something considered politically incorrect by > > parasite protection societies. So how are your efforts to save the > > tapeworm going? > > Robert B. Winn > > Was that an attempt at humour? > it's hard to tell with you. > -- > Steve O I am always dead serious. You can be sure of that. --------------------------------------------- The fundy 'humour bypass' has that effect. Smiler, The godless one a.a.# 2279
From: rbwinn on 2 Jul 2008 20:17 On Jul 2, 2:03 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 1, 11:59 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 1, 1:04 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jul 1, 12:20 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 30, 1:19�pm, Enkidu <fox_rgf...(a)trashmail.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in news:22183802-cf28-4305-af11- > >>>>>>>> 7d254b106...(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > >>>>>>>>> You are the one being deliberately obtuse. � The existence of the > >>>>>>>>> tunnel validates many other things said in the Bible about the > >>>>>>>>> Assyrian invasion of Judea. > >>>>>>>> "The Hobbit" talks of ale, axes, and forests which we know exist. Does that > >>>>>>>> validate Orcs, Elves, Dwarves, trolls, magic rings, walking trees and Tom > >>>>>>>> Bombadil? > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Enkidu AA#2165 � > >>>>>>>> EAC Chaplain and ordained minister, > >>>>>>>> ULC, Modesto, CA > >>>>>>>> Doesn't anything socialistic make you want to throw up? Like great public > >>>>>>>> schools, or health insurance for all? > >>>>>>>> � � �-Kurt Vonnegut > >>>>>>> Why don't you decide for yourself?  You were the one who thought of > >>>>>>> it. > >>>>>> Why don't you try to defend your assertions? How can we know we can > >>>>>> trust what you say?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> It does not matter to me what you trust.  You decide what you are > >>>>> going to trust. > >>>> If you can't provide any sensible reason to believe your fanciful > >>>> claims, then I guess we're done.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Fanciful claims?  I said that the Jews dug a tunnel as a conduit for > >>> water between Gihon spring and the pool of Siloam.  Why do you think > >>> that is a fanciful claim? > >> That is not a fanciful claim. You and I both know that I'm referring to > >> your supernatural claims. Those would be the ones you're completely > >> unable to support with any evidence.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > I have not made any claims to atheists except that the Jews dug a > > tunnel to be used as a conduit for water, and the Assyrians built a > > ramp out of dirt to get over the city wall at Lachish.  To an atheist > > these might seem like supernatural claims because there were actually > > people working to accomplish both of these tasks instead of just > > giving orders, criticism, etc., the way atheists do.  Since atheists > > have been unable to visualize these two events, there is no reason to > > proceed on to anything more complex. > > Then we're in total agreement. A tunnel was dug a long time ago and it > got mentioned in some ancient writings, providing absolutlely no support > for any supernatural claims. > > So why all the posts?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - You do not seem to be visualizing it very well. The Assyrians came into Judea with an army of hundreds of thousands on their way home after taking a big chunk of Egypt. Judea was a little dot in the middle of the Assyrian kingdom, which extended from the Caspian Sea to Egypt. So why was there still a Kingdom of Judea when King Sennacherib got back to his capitol city of Ninevah? Sennacherib himself says there was on the column he had erected in Ninevah. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 2 Jul 2008 20:18 On Jul 2, 2:05 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 2, 12:01 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 1, 8:57�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>news:331f3679-c6d3-4823-a60e-ab10d5db820e(a)2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com.... > >>>> Well, Adolph Eichmann felt much the same way about the final > >>>> solution. > >>>> ========= > >>>> Now that's definitely Godwin's Law ... > >>> Yes, Godwin's law is a rule made by atheists forbidding any reference > >>> to the Nazi Party. > >> Your total inability to learn should be a serious concern to you! You're > >> still wrong about that. > > > No, I am not.  The Nazi Party did a lot of things that atheists would > > like to do again.  So if it is forbidden to talk about the Nazi Party > > and what they did, then people will forget about it, and there will be > > no outcry when you do the same kind of things. > > No-one is forbidden by Godwin's Law from doing anything. You are wrong, > your silly and bigoted assertions notwithstanding.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I do not think the Nazi Party was a good organization, notwithstanding their military successes. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 2 Jul 2008 20:22 On Jul 2, 2:14 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 2, 12:44 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 1, 7:08�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:14:36 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism > >>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in > >>>> <f9708904-6500-4209-b487-ab99be5d1...(a)r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>: > >>>>> On Jul 1, 1:07?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >>>>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 00:17:22 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 30, 3:58?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:06:02 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 4:12?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:23:58 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno..com> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 7:07?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:06:07 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>> ... > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I did not lie. ?There actually is a conduit for water between Gihon > >>>>>>>>>>>>> spring and the pool of Siloam. > >>>>>>>>>>>> And, as you know, that is not the lie I have pointed out to you. You lie > >>>>>>>>>>>> here by falsely and intentionally trying to distract us from the lie > >>>>>>>>>>>> under discussion. You know that no one imposes abortion in the United > >>>>>>>>>>>> States. That is another in a long line of lies that you refuse to repent > >>>>>>>>>>>> of.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>> The Supreme Court and other atheists imposed abortion on the United > >>>>>>>>>>> States. > >>>>>>>>>> Abortion is not imposed. You know that. No one is ever forced to have an > >>>>>>>>>> abortion by our government. Stop lying to us. > >>>>>>>>> Women have been forced to have abortions in order to get welfare > >>>>>>>>> assistance. > >>>>>>>> Bullshit. Citation, please. > >>>>>>> And our government still recognizes our right to trial by jury, > >>>>>>> right? > >>>>>> Nice attempt at distraction, but completely irrelevant. This has > >>>>>> absolutely nothing to do with women being forced to have abortions in > >>>>>> order to get welfare assistance. Which is still a completely bogus > >>>>>> claim on your part. > >>>>>>> How gullible do you think I am about "our government"? ?Or > >>>>>>> maybe you are just including atheists when you say "our government". > >>>>>> I didn't say you were gullible, I said you were lying. Your pathetic > >>>>>> attempt to change the subject, rather than support your claim, just > >>>>>> confirms my assessment.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> I personally know one woman who was subjected to governmental > >>>>> reproduction control. > >>>> Back up your defamatory claim with some evidence.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Why?  Am I supposed to care whether you believe what I say? > >> Why bother talking at all then? You know that no-one will listen without > >> you backing up your claims.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > I do not care whether you listen.  I do not care whether you believe > > there is a tunnel between Gihon spring and the pool of Siloam.  I do > > not care whether you believe there is an earthen ramp built by the > > Assyrian army over the wall of the city of Lachish.  The fact that you > > disbelieve something does not change it.  I believe what I believe.. > > What you are saying is that everyone else believes something different > > from what I believe, so I should never say what I believe.  First of > > all, not everyone believes something different from what I believe. > > Only atheists seem to consistently believe something different. > > No, again you misunderstand me. You're fully entitled to spout off about > whatever you like, but we're free to think you're another crazy > god-addled believer until you can come up with some compelling evidence > that we should take seriously. So far you have some ancient physical > features that may or may not be the ones mentioned in the Bible. There > are plenty of other such places in there. None of them show that the > Bible is anything more than fiction written about some real places. > > The Qu'ran has many such places too. Is that true? > > So, spout away! :-)- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - No, that is not true. I have read the Quran. It does not compare with the Bible in any way except with regard to some names. I would classify it as an uninspired writing. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 2 Jul 2008 20:26
On Jul 2, 2:15 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 1, 8:49�pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:14:36 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> wrote: > > >>> On Jul 1, 1:07?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 00:17:22 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 30, 3:58?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:06:02 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 29, 4:12?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:23:58 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 7:07?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:06:07 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>> ... > >>>>>>>>>>> I did not lie. ?There actually is a conduit for water between Gihon > >>>>>>>>>>> spring and the pool of Siloam. > >>>>>>>>>> And, as you know, that is not the lie I have pointed out to you.. You lie > >>>>>>>>>> here by falsely and intentionally trying to distract us from the lie > >>>>>>>>>> under discussion. You know that no one imposes abortion in the United > >>>>>>>>>> States. That is another in a long line of lies that you refuse to repent > >>>>>>>>>> of.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> The Supreme Court and other atheists imposed abortion on the United > >>>>>>>>> States. > >>>>>>>> Abortion is not imposed. You know that. No one is ever forced to have an > >>>>>>>> abortion by our government. Stop lying to us. > >>>>>>> Women have been forced to have abortions in order to get welfare > >>>>>>> assistance. > >>>>>> Bullshit. Citation, please. > >>>>> And our government still recognizes our right to trial by jury, > >>>>> right? > >>>> Nice attempt at distraction, but completely irrelevant. This has > >>>> absolutely nothing to do with women being forced to have abortions in > >>>> order to get welfare assistance. Which is still a completely bogus > >>>> claim on your part. > >>>>> How gullible do you think I am about "our government"? ?Or > >>>>> maybe you are just including atheists when you say "our government". > >>>> I didn't say you were gullible, I said you were lying. Your pathetic > >>>> attempt to change the subject, rather than support your claim, just > >>>> confirms my assessment. > >>> I personally know one woman who was subjected to governmental > >>> reproduction control. > >> Was she Chinese? Seriously, put up, or shut up. You made a claim; now > >> either back it up or retract it.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Do atheists have some special program for Chinese women in the United > > States?  We know they do in China.  However, there are a lot of women > > in the United States you do not even seem to consider, women in mental > > institutions, women in prisons, etc., but the one I know personally > > was just a woman who applied for welfare assistance. > > Playing a slippery game, aren't you Robert? ;-)- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I am not playing a game. Atheists run China, and women in China definitely do get government ordered abortions. It also happens here in the United States. Robert B. Winn |