Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al) on 2 Jul 2008 21:11 On Jul 3, 9:59 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > On Jul 2, 1:28 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > > > > <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > On Jul 2, 11:30 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > On Jul 2, 12:13 am, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > > > > <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > > On Jul 2, 3:34 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Jul 1, 6:43 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > > > > > > <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > > > > > On Jul 2, 11:27 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Jul 1, 1:14 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jul 1, 12:34 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > > >>> On Jun 30, 12:25 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>> On Jun 28, 6:06�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch..us> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence.. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> So? > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> I never have believed in evolution. �I think it is a fable, just as > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Paul said it was. > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Paul knew nothing about it. You mock the Bible with such silly > > > > > > > > >>>>>> interpretations of it.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > >>>>> I just believe what Paul said. You seem a little upset that I do not > > > > > > > > >>>>> believe your fable. > > > > > > > > >>>> Can you please identify what he said about it? Please?- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > >>>> - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > >>> 2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound > > > > > > > > >>> doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves > > > > > > > > >>> teachers, having itching ears; > > > > > > > > >>> 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be > > > > > > > > >>> turned unto fables. > > > > > > > > >> I can't see any mention of evolution. I can't even see any description > > > > > > > > >> of the theory, or even a theistic strawman description. Can you help me > > > > > > > > >> out? You made a claim that seems difficult to substantiate.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > Well, I think we are getting into subject matter that is too difficult > > > > > > > > > for you. Maybe we should go back to Hezekiah's tunnel. > > > > > > > > > I'm not struggling, maybe you could point out the verse where evolution > > > > > > > > is singled out. Maybe he's talking about the germ theory of disease. I'm > > > > > > > > sure you believe that demons are behind illness, rather than pathogens.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > Well, Paul said that in the last days, men would be turned to fables > > > > > > > to explain things. So today we see science explaining most things by > > > > > > > fables. > > > > > > > Robert B. Winn > > > > > > > Please explain how "evolution" counts as a fable? And we'll show you > > > > > > how you understanding of evolution is horribly wrong. > > > > > > > Al- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > Well, as Paul pointed out, in the last days men would be unable to > > > > > endure sound doctrine and would devise a fable to try to explain the > > > > > existence of mankind without a God. > > > > > Robert B. Winn > > > > > That doesn't relate evolution to a fable. > > > > Do you ever answer a question that isn't just from your own > > > > imagination? > > > > > Al- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > It happened just the way Paul said it would. > > > Robert B. Winn > > > If you want to converse with the voices in your head, could you just > > leave out alt.atheism in your replies? Your posts are clearly not > > related to anything you're clicking reply on. > > > Al- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > As I understand it I have given a response to one of your posts that > does not comform to atheistic rules. > Robert B. Winn Those would be those rules about not lying blatantly? They're more like guidelines, and more Human than specifically atheist. Al
From: BuddyThunder on 2 Jul 2008 23:35 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 2, 2:03 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 1, 11:59 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jul 1, 1:04 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jul 1, 12:20 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jun 30, 1:19�pm, Enkidu <fox_rgf...(a)trashmail.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in news:22183802-cf28-4305-af11- >>>>>>>>>> 7d254b106...(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: >>>>>>>>>>> You are the one being deliberately obtuse. � The existence of the >>>>>>>>>>> tunnel validates many other things said in the Bible about the >>>>>>>>>>> Assyrian invasion of Judea. >>>>>>>>>> "The Hobbit" talks of ale, axes, and forests which we know exist. Does that >>>>>>>>>> validate Orcs, Elves, Dwarves, trolls, magic rings, walking trees and Tom >>>>>>>>>> Bombadil? >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Enkidu AA#2165 � >>>>>>>>>> EAC Chaplain and ordained minister, >>>>>>>>>> ULC, Modesto, CA >>>>>>>>>> Doesn't anything socialistic make you want to throw up? Like great public >>>>>>>>>> schools, or health insurance for all? >>>>>>>>>> � � �-Kurt Vonnegut >>>>>>>>> Why don't you decide for yourself? You were the one who thought of >>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> Why don't you try to defend your assertions? How can we know we can >>>>>>>> trust what you say?- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> It does not matter to me what you trust. You decide what you are >>>>>>> going to trust. >>>>>> If you can't provide any sensible reason to believe your fanciful >>>>>> claims, then I guess we're done.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> Fanciful claims? I said that the Jews dug a tunnel as a conduit for >>>>> water between Gihon spring and the pool of Siloam. Why do you think >>>>> that is a fanciful claim? >>>> That is not a fanciful claim. You and I both know that I'm referring to >>>> your supernatural claims. Those would be the ones you're completely >>>> unable to support with any evidence.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> I have not made any claims to atheists except that the Jews dug a >>> tunnel to be used as a conduit for water, and the Assyrians built a >>> ramp out of dirt to get over the city wall at Lachish. To an atheist >>> these might seem like supernatural claims because there were actually >>> people working to accomplish both of these tasks instead of just >>> giving orders, criticism, etc., the way atheists do. Since atheists >>> have been unable to visualize these two events, there is no reason to >>> proceed on to anything more complex. >> Then we're in total agreement. A tunnel was dug a long time ago and it >> got mentioned in some ancient writings, providing absolutlely no support >> for any supernatural claims. >> >> So why all the posts?- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > You do not seem to be visualizing it very well. The Assyrians came > into Judea with an army of hundreds of thousands on their way home > after taking a big chunk of Egypt. Judea was a little dot in the > middle of the Assyrian kingdom, which extended from the Caspian Sea to > Egypt. So why was there still a Kingdom of Judea when King > Sennacherib got back to his capitol city of Ninevah? Sennacherib > himself says there was on the column he had erected in Ninevah. Or so the story goes.
From: BuddyThunder on 2 Jul 2008 23:36 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 2, 2:05 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 2, 12:01 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jul 1, 8:57�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:331f3679-c6d3-4823-a60e-ab10d5db820e(a)2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> Well, Adolph Eichmann felt much the same way about the final >>>>>> solution. >>>>>> ========= >>>>>> Now that's definitely Godwin's Law ... >>>>> Yes, Godwin's law is a rule made by atheists forbidding any reference >>>>> to the Nazi Party. >>>> Your total inability to learn should be a serious concern to you! You're >>>> still wrong about that. >>> No, I am not. The Nazi Party did a lot of things that atheists would >>> like to do again. So if it is forbidden to talk about the Nazi Party >>> and what they did, then people will forget about it, and there will be >>> no outcry when you do the same kind of things. >> No-one is forbidden by Godwin's Law from doing anything. You are wrong, >> your silly and bigoted assertions notwithstanding.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > I do not think the Nazi Party was a good organization, notwithstanding > their military successes. Fantastic.
From: BuddyThunder on 2 Jul 2008 23:38 Daniel Mandic wrote: > BuddyThunder wrote: > >> Well, we don't have a centralised organisation telling us what to >> believe. We have to reach our own conclusions and values based on the >> information we have to hand. Consequently, we hold a variety of >> opinions. We're each responsible for our own conclusions, just as it >> should be. >> >> It is a tactic, for developing a set of tools allowing us to >> appropriately deal with the world. > > Well spoken.... but i would suggest you to not remind religion > anymore.... otherwise you are seemingly ok > > > > > Best regards, > > Daniel Mandic > > p.S.: I don't remind atheists when writing about god..... good Luck! Replace "god" with "gods" and you're there! :-)
From: BuddyThunder on 2 Jul 2008 23:39
rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 2, 2:14 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 2, 12:44 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jul 1, 7:08�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:14:36 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism >>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in >>>>>> <f9708904-6500-4209-b487-ab99be5d1...(a)r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>: >>>>>>> On Jul 1, 1:07?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 00:17:22 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jun 30, 3:58?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:06:02 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 4:12?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:23:58 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 7:07?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:06:07 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did not lie. ?There actually is a conduit for water between Gihon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spring and the pool of Siloam. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, as you know, that is not the lie I have pointed out to you. You lie >>>>>>>>>>>>>> here by falsely and intentionally trying to distract us from the lie >>>>>>>>>>>>>> under discussion. You know that no one imposes abortion in the United >>>>>>>>>>>>>> States. That is another in a long line of lies that you refuse to repent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>> The Supreme Court and other atheists imposed abortion on the United >>>>>>>>>>>>> States. >>>>>>>>>>>> Abortion is not imposed. You know that. No one is ever forced to have an >>>>>>>>>>>> abortion by our government. Stop lying to us. >>>>>>>>>>> Women have been forced to have abortions in order to get welfare >>>>>>>>>>> assistance. >>>>>>>>>> Bullshit. Citation, please. >>>>>>>>> And our government still recognizes our right to trial by jury, >>>>>>>>> right? >>>>>>>> Nice attempt at distraction, but completely irrelevant. This has >>>>>>>> absolutely nothing to do with women being forced to have abortions in >>>>>>>> order to get welfare assistance. Which is still a completely bogus >>>>>>>> claim on your part. >>>>>>>>> How gullible do you think I am about "our government"? ?Or >>>>>>>>> maybe you are just including atheists when you say "our government". >>>>>>>> I didn't say you were gullible, I said you were lying. Your pathetic >>>>>>>> attempt to change the subject, rather than support your claim, just >>>>>>>> confirms my assessment.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> I personally know one woman who was subjected to governmental >>>>>>> reproduction control. >>>>>> Back up your defamatory claim with some evidence.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> Why? Am I supposed to care whether you believe what I say? >>>> Why bother talking at all then? You know that no-one will listen without >>>> you backing up your claims.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> I do not care whether you listen. I do not care whether you believe >>> there is a tunnel between Gihon spring and the pool of Siloam. I do >>> not care whether you believe there is an earthen ramp built by the >>> Assyrian army over the wall of the city of Lachish. The fact that you >>> disbelieve something does not change it. I believe what I believe. >>> What you are saying is that everyone else believes something different >>> from what I believe, so I should never say what I believe. First of >>> all, not everyone believes something different from what I believe. >>> Only atheists seem to consistently believe something different. >> No, again you misunderstand me. You're fully entitled to spout off about >> whatever you like, but we're free to think you're another crazy >> god-addled believer until you can come up with some compelling evidence >> that we should take seriously. So far you have some ancient physical >> features that may or may not be the ones mentioned in the Bible. There >> are plenty of other such places in there. None of them show that the >> Bible is anything more than fiction written about some real places. >> >> The Qu'ran has many such places too. Is that true? >> >> So, spout away! :-)- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > No, that is not true. I have read the Quran. It does not compare > with the Bible in any way except with regard to some names. I would > classify it as an uninspired writing. But why? The places mentioned there exist, and their stories share some common elements with mainstream history, just like the Bible. You should revere the book as holy! |