Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 3 Jul 2008 06:54 On Jul 2, 8:43 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 2, 2:22 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 2, 12:07 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jul 1, 1:13�pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>> atheists.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> Well, I am sure you will not. �What would their reaction be to > >>>>>>> discover that the apostle Paul had identified the theory of evolution > >>>>>>> as a fable? > >>>>>> They would accuse you of lying too. It's the only sensible reaction to > >>>>>> your lies.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> Well, I think that is exactly right.  Atheists accuse anyone who > >>>>> disagrees with their atheistic doctrines of lying. > >>>> Not so much. I will call someone a liar when they lie to me. Call me old > >>>> fashioned. Like that time you told me that I didn't believe in the > >>>> tunnel. That was a lie. Or where you said that a post was made up-thread > >>>> claiming that nothing in the Bible was true. Another lie. Need I continue?- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Well, it may be that you do believe in the tunnel, but if it was to > >>> the advantage of atheists to deny its existence, then you would say it > >>> does not exist.  The tunnel does not present that kind of opportunity > >>> because it is well documented, so you pretend that it exists but does > >>> not mean anything.  You do not need to continue.  I would personally > >>> like to see you just talk to other atheists.  But I think you will > >>> continue to post to me. > >> I've never denied the tunnel. That was your lie about me. I will ask you > >> again politely to stop. > > >> You're right, I will reply because I want to understand why you believe > >> the tunnel should sway my atheism. I really can't see the hand of God in > >> anything you've posted. He always seems to be hiding to me when he > >> should be most obvious. Almost like he doesn't exist. > > >> A tunnel exists, Jerusalem exists, some ramp exists (probably, again no > >> evidence here), Jews exist. These things are in the Bible. So what? > > >> Medina is in the Qu'ran. London is in Harry Potter. I don't claim their > >> literal truth on that basis.- Hide quoted text - > > > I am not trying to sway your atheism.  In my entire life I have only > > seen one atheist convert to Christianity.  No other person was > > involved in that.  She was staying in a hotel and started to read the > > scriptures that were in the hotel dresser drawer.  I just use the > > tunnel as a reference to the Bible because the Bible describes its > > construction.  Believe whatever you want.  I do not care what you > > believe.  So whenever atheists try to change the subject to something > > they want to talk about such as Harry Potter, I change the subject > > back to Hezekiah's tunnel.  How long this will continue, I cannot > > say.  I though atheists would give up on it much sooner. > > No, we're dogged when fighting lunacy! :-)- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, If you want to deny the existence of something, you are free to do that. If you want to try to change the subject to Harry Potter , you are free to do that, It does not mean anything to me. I am free to refer you back to reality. Hezekiah's tunnel is real. Robert B. Winn
From: raven1 on 3 Jul 2008 06:56 On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 22:01:36 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote: >On Jul 2, 5:52?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:26:00 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Jul 2, 2:15?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> >> rbwinn wrote: >> >> > On Jul 1, 8:49?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:14:36 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> On Jul 1, 1:07?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >> >> >>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 00:17:22 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>> On Jun 30, 3:58?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >> >> >>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:06:02 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>> On Jun 29, 4:12?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:23:58 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >> >> >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >> >> >>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 7:07?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:06:07 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >> >> >>>>>>>> ... >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> I did not lie. ?There actually is a conduit for water between Gihon >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> spring and the pool of Siloam. >> >> >>>>>>>>>> And, as you know, that is not the lie I have pointed out to you. You lie >> >> >>>>>>>>>> here by falsely and intentionally trying to distract us from the lie >> >> >>>>>>>>>> under discussion. You know that no one imposes abortion in the United >> >> >>>>>>>>>> States. That is another in a long line of lies that you refuse to repent >> >> >>>>>>>>>> of.- Hide quoted text - >> >> >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >> >> >>>>>>>>> The Supreme Court and other atheists imposed abortion on the United >> >> >>>>>>>>> States. >> >> >>>>>>>> Abortion is not imposed. You know that. No one is ever forced to have an >> >> >>>>>>>> abortion by our government. Stop lying to us. >> >> >>>>>>> Women have been forced to have abortions in order to get welfare >> >> >>>>>>> assistance. >> >> >>>>>> Bullshit. Citation, please. >> >> >>>>> And our government still recognizes our right to trial by jury, >> >> >>>>> right? >> >> >>>> Nice attempt at distraction, but completely irrelevant. This has >> >> >>>> absolutely nothing to do with women being forced to have abortions in >> >> >>>> order to get welfare assistance. Which is still a completely bogus >> >> >>>> claim on your part. >> >> >>>>> How gullible do you think I am about "our government"? ?Or >> >> >>>>> maybe you are just including atheists when you say "our government". >> >> >>>> I didn't say you were gullible, I said you were lying. Your pathetic >> >> >>>> attempt to change the subject, rather than support your claim, just >> >> >>>> confirms my assessment. >> >> >>> I personally know one woman who was subjected to governmental >> >> >>> reproduction control. >> >> >> Was she Chinese? Seriously, put up, or shut up. You made a claim; now >> >> >> either back it up or retract it.- Hide quoted text - >> >> >> >> - Show quoted text - >> >> >> > Do atheists have some special program for Chinese women in the United >> >> > States? ?We know they do in China. ?However, there are a lot of women >> >> > in the United States you do not even seem to consider, women in mental >> >> > institutions, women in prisons, etc., but the one I know personally >> >> > was just a woman who applied for welfare assistance. >> >> >> Playing a slippery game, aren't you Robert? ;-)- Hide quoted text - >> >> >> - Show quoted text - >> >> >I am not playing a game. ?Atheists run China, and women in China >> >definitely do get government ordered abortions. ?It also happens here >> >in the United States. >> >> Again, bullshit. Provide one *documented* example of it happening in >> the US. Not an anecdote about some woman you claim to know. Your >> credibility is zero until you back up your claim.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > >Well, I would suspect that nothing like that ever gets documented. Things that don't happen rarely get documented. <snip another pathetic red herring attempt>
From: rbwinn on 3 Jul 2008 07:29 On Jul 2, 3:57�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 22:34:31 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism > rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in > <512cb48e-87b3-4821-909e-b74ba05b6...(a)w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>: > > > > > > >On Jul 1, 6:43�pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > ><alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >> On Jul 2, 11:27 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > >> > On Jul 1, 1:14 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >> > > rbwinn wrote: > >> > > > On Jul 1, 12:34 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> > > >> rbwinn wrote: > >> > > >>> On Jun 30, 12:25 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> > > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >> > > >>>>> On Jun 28, 6:06?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> > > >>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> > > >>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> > > >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> > > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> > > >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> > > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> > > >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi....(a)juno.com> > >> > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net..nz> wrote: > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. > >> > > >>>>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > >> > > >>>>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact > >> > > >>>>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > >> > > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> > > >>>>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > >> > > >>>>>>>> So? > >> > > >>>>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - > >> > > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> > > >>>>>>> I never have believed in evolution. ?I think it is a fable, just as > >> > > >>>>>>> Paul said it was. > >> > > >>>>>> Paul knew nothing about it. You mock the Bible with such silly > >> > > >>>>>> interpretations of it.- Hide quoted text - > >> > > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> > > >>>>> I just believe what Paul said. �You seem a little upset that I do not > >> > > >>>>> believe your fable. > >> > > >>>> Can you please identify what he said about it? Please?- Hide quoted text - > >> > > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >> > > >>> 2 Tim 4:3 �For the time will come when they will not endure sound > >> > > >>> doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves > >> > > >>> teachers, having itching ears; > >> > > >>> 4 � And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be > >> > > >>> turned unto fables. > >> > > >> I can't see any mention of evolution. I can't even see any description > >> > > >> of the theory, or even a theistic strawman description. Can you help me > >> > > >> out? You made a claim that seems difficult to substantiate.- Hide quoted text - > > >> > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >> > > > Well, I think we are getting into subject matter that is too difficult > >> > > > for you. �Maybe we should go back to Hezekiah's tunnel. > > >> > > I'm not struggling, maybe you could point out the verse where evolution > >> > > is singled out. Maybe he's talking about the germ theory of disease.. I'm > >> > > sure you believe that demons are behind illness, rather than pathogens.- Hide quoted text - > > >> > > - Show quoted text - > > >> > Well, Paul said that in the last days, men would be turned to fables > >> > to explain things. �So today we see science explaining most things by > >> > fables. > >> > Robert B. Winn > > >> Please explain how "evolution" counts as a fable? �And we'll show you > >> how you understanding of evolution is horribly wrong. > > >Well, as Paul pointed out, in the last days men would be unable to > >endure sound doctrine and would devise a fable to try to explain the > >existence of mankind without a God. > > Liar. Paul said nothing about evolution.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, you atheists seem a little inconsistent. First you say Paul did not exist, and then you say that what he said was not about evolution. If he did not exist, how did he say something that was not about evolution? Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 3 Jul 2008 07:31 On Jul 2, 4:03�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 22:13:21 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism > rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in > <f028bc18-d1bb-4772-a436-fb649e3ff...(a)59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>: > > > > > > >On Jul 1, 5:05?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 07:31:29 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism > >> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in > >> <ccc732d9-4c47-442b-ad22-fc806fe8b...(a)z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>: > > >> >On Jul 1, 12:32?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> >> Free Lunch wrote: > >> >> > On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:26:07 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism > >> >> > rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in > >> >> > <b804ab27-a92f-4ef2-a69c-54dd80028...(a)j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>: > >> >> >> On Jun 30, 12:25?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> >> >>> Free Lunch wrote: > >> >> >>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:15:20 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno..com> > >> >> >>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> >> >>>>> On Jun 28, 6:06?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >> >>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> >>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> >> >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >> >>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> >> >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi....(a)juno.com> > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net..nz> wrote: > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. > >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > >> >> >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> >> >>>>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > >> >> >>>>>>>> So? > >> >> >>>>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - > >> >> >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> >> >>>>>>> I never have believed in evolution. ?I think it is a fable, just as > >> >> >>>>>>> Paul said it was. > >> >> >>>>>> Paul knew nothing about it. You mock the Bible with such silly > >> >> >>>>>> interpretations of it.- Hide quoted text - > >> >> >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> >> >>>>> I just believe what Paul said. ?You seem a little upset that I do not > >> >> >>>>> believe your fable. > >> >> >>>> Your problem is that you _lied_ about what Paul said. He _never_ said > >> >> >>>> that evolution was a fable. That was the lie you told, one you cannot > >> >> >>>> back up with _anything_ in the Bible, not from Paul, not from anywhere. > >> >> >>> It's gotta be tough to keep 'em all in a row this far down the road!- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> >>> - Show quoted text - > >> >> >> Well, if Paul had named Charles Darwin by name, atheists would claim > >> >> >> he was not talking about evolution. > > >> >> > You know you lied to us, but you are trying to run away from your > >> >> > behavior when you were caught. > > >> >> It is not weakness to admit a mistake, Robert. We won't tell the other > >> >> atheists.- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> >Well, I am sure you will not. ?What would their reaction be to > >> >discover that the apostle Paul had identified the theory of evolution > >> >as a fable? > > >> He did not. You lied to us about that. Remember?- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >Well, the best one to ask about that would be Paul. > > Paul is dead.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - How did Paul end up dead if he never existed? Harry Potter is not dead. He is not alive. He is just a fictional character in a book. So explain how Paul never existed, but now he is dead. Robert B. Winn
From: Alex W. on 3 Jul 2008 09:05
"rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:f807e4d0-b40f-4cb8-bb4c-12f00021898d(a)34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... Well, the scriptures say that the wicked would be more miserable in the presence of God than with the devils in hell. =========== In other words, since we are all sinful by definition, the smart choice is to aim for hell in the first place. Nice morality .... |