Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: BuddyThunder on 2 Jul 2008 23:41 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 2, 1:32�pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 05:35:47 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jul 1, 8:49?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:14:36 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> On Jul 1, 1:07?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 00:17:22 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> On Jun 30, 3:58?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:06:02 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 4:12?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:23:58 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 7:07?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:06:07 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>>>> I did not lie. ?There actually is a conduit for water between Gihon >>>>>>>>>>>>> spring and the pool of Siloam. >>>>>>>>>>>> And, as you know, that is not the lie I have pointed out to you. You lie >>>>>>>>>>>> here by falsely and intentionally trying to distract us from the lie >>>>>>>>>>>> under discussion. You know that no one imposes abortion in the United >>>>>>>>>>>> States. That is another in a long line of lies that you refuse to repent >>>>>>>>>>>> of.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>> The Supreme Court and other atheists imposed abortion on the United >>>>>>>>>>> States. >>>>>>>>>> Abortion is not imposed. You know that. No one is ever forced to have an >>>>>>>>>> abortion by our government. Stop lying to us. >>>>>>>>> Women have been forced to have abortions in order to get welfare >>>>>>>>> assistance. >>>>>>>> Bullshit. Citation, please. >>>>>>> And our government still recognizes our right to trial by jury, >>>>>>> right? >>>>>> Nice attempt at distraction, but completely irrelevant. This has >>>>>> absolutely nothing to do with women being forced to have abortions in >>>>>> order to get welfare assistance. Which is still a completely bogus >>>>>> claim on your part. >>>>>>> How gullible do you think I am about "our government"? ?Or >>>>>>> maybe you are just including atheists when you say "our government". >>>>>> I didn't say you were gullible, I said you were lying. Your pathetic >>>>>> attempt to change the subject, rather than support your claim, just >>>>>> confirms my assessment. >>>>> I personally know one woman who was subjected to governmental >>>>> reproduction control. >>>> Was she Chinese? Seriously, put up, or shut up. You made a claim; now >>>> either back it up or retract it.- Hide quoted text - >>> Do atheists have some special program for Chinese women in the United >>> States? �We know they do in China. �However, there are a lot of women >>> in the United States you do not even seem to consider, women in mental >>> institutions, women in prisons, etc., but the one I know personally >>> was just a woman who applied for welfare assistance. >> IOW, you have nothing to support your claim. Thanks for clearing that >> up.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > You are free to believe or disbelieve what I said about this woman, > just as you are free to believe or disbelieve anything else I say. > Does this seem unfair to you? Fair enough, but you must then submit to your lies being called lies. That's freedom of speech for ya!
From: BuddyThunder on 2 Jul 2008 23:41 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 2, 2:15 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 1, 8:49�pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:14:36 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> On Jul 1, 1:07?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 00:17:22 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> On Jun 30, 3:58?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:06:02 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 4:12?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:23:58 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 7:07?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:06:07 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>>>> I did not lie. ?There actually is a conduit for water between Gihon >>>>>>>>>>>>> spring and the pool of Siloam. >>>>>>>>>>>> And, as you know, that is not the lie I have pointed out to you. You lie >>>>>>>>>>>> here by falsely and intentionally trying to distract us from the lie >>>>>>>>>>>> under discussion. You know that no one imposes abortion in the United >>>>>>>>>>>> States. That is another in a long line of lies that you refuse to repent >>>>>>>>>>>> of.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>> The Supreme Court and other atheists imposed abortion on the United >>>>>>>>>>> States. >>>>>>>>>> Abortion is not imposed. You know that. No one is ever forced to have an >>>>>>>>>> abortion by our government. Stop lying to us. >>>>>>>>> Women have been forced to have abortions in order to get welfare >>>>>>>>> assistance. >>>>>>>> Bullshit. Citation, please. >>>>>>> And our government still recognizes our right to trial by jury, >>>>>>> right? >>>>>> Nice attempt at distraction, but completely irrelevant. This has >>>>>> absolutely nothing to do with women being forced to have abortions in >>>>>> order to get welfare assistance. Which is still a completely bogus >>>>>> claim on your part. >>>>>>> How gullible do you think I am about "our government"? ?Or >>>>>>> maybe you are just including atheists when you say "our government". >>>>>> I didn't say you were gullible, I said you were lying. Your pathetic >>>>>> attempt to change the subject, rather than support your claim, just >>>>>> confirms my assessment. >>>>> I personally know one woman who was subjected to governmental >>>>> reproduction control. >>>> Was she Chinese? Seriously, put up, or shut up. You made a claim; now >>>> either back it up or retract it.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Do atheists have some special program for Chinese women in the United >>> States? We know they do in China. However, there are a lot of women >>> in the United States you do not even seem to consider, women in mental >>> institutions, women in prisons, etc., but the one I know personally >>> was just a woman who applied for welfare assistance. >> Playing a slippery game, aren't you Robert? ;-)- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > I am not playing a game. Atheists run China, and women in China > definitely do get government ordered abortions. It also happens here > in the United States. Can you cite for either case?
From: BuddyThunder on 2 Jul 2008 23:42 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 2, 2:17 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 2, 12:45 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jul 1, 5:00�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 07:27:47 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism >>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in >>>>>> <6ec0a32a-3255-47d6-b573-5ace27ba6...(a)26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>:>On Jul 1, 12:29�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>> No, you didn't. �I told you from the beginning that I was a Vietnam >>>>>>>>> veteran. >>>>>>>> Did you? I don't remember it. >>>>>>>> Your record of lying has not served you well, it was an honestly-held >>>>>>>> suspicion. I have been corrected. See how easy it is to admit that I was >>>>>>>> wrong? >>>>>>> How do you know I was telling the truth about being a Vietnam >>>>>>> veteran? �Do you see how you are getting onto shaky ground here? >>>>>> We don't. We also know that you lie to us all the time. Still, it >>>>>> doesn't matter in this discussion whether you have lied to us about your >>>>>> service in Vietnam or not. Do you have PTSD? >>>>> What they accused me of was paranoid schizophrenia. At the time I did >>>>> not pay much attention to it until they started to try to kill me with >>>>> tranquilizers. The reason why I still talk to atheists is because >>>>> they act exactly like people who work in psychiatry. >>>>> They are people who hate me for no reason at all. That is behavior >>>>> that seems very strange to me. >>>> I don't hate you at all, I just vigourously disagree with you. Actually, >>>> I don't even understand you.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Well, I am sure there were SS concentration camp guards who would say >>> that they did not hate the Jews. Actions sometimes speak louder than >>> words. >> Do you really think I'm comparable to a Nazi guard? No need to be so >> defensive about your faith, no-one's forcing you to post! No-one's >> forcing you to renounce your faith. Easy tiger, it ain't that bad! >> >> I've even tried to be nice, but it's hard when you're being unfairly >> compared to Nazis.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > All people who have ever lived can be compared to Nazis. Some are > worse than Nazis, some are better than Nazis. Why would it bother you > to be compared to Nazis? I would not bother me. I am nothing like > any Nazi. Then why make a meaningless comparrison like that? Except to dishonestly smear your opponent by association. That's what religion has reduced you to, and I think that's sad.
From: BuddyThunder on 2 Jul 2008 23:43 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 2, 2:22 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 2, 12:07 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jul 1, 1:13�pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>> atheists.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> Well, I am sure you will not. �What would their reaction be to >>>>>>> discover that the apostle Paul had identified the theory of evolution >>>>>>> as a fable? >>>>>> They would accuse you of lying too. It's the only sensible reaction to >>>>>> your lies.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> Well, I think that is exactly right. Atheists accuse anyone who >>>>> disagrees with their atheistic doctrines of lying. >>>> Not so much. I will call someone a liar when they lie to me. Call me old >>>> fashioned. Like that time you told me that I didn't believe in the >>>> tunnel. That was a lie. Or where you said that a post was made up-thread >>>> claiming that nothing in the Bible was true. Another lie. Need I continue?- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Well, it may be that you do believe in the tunnel, but if it was to >>> the advantage of atheists to deny its existence, then you would say it >>> does not exist. The tunnel does not present that kind of opportunity >>> because it is well documented, so you pretend that it exists but does >>> not mean anything. You do not need to continue. I would personally >>> like to see you just talk to other atheists. But I think you will >>> continue to post to me. >> I've never denied the tunnel. That was your lie about me. I will ask you >> again politely to stop. >> >> You're right, I will reply because I want to understand why you believe >> the tunnel should sway my atheism. I really can't see the hand of God in >> anything you've posted. He always seems to be hiding to me when he >> should be most obvious. Almost like he doesn't exist. >> >> A tunnel exists, Jerusalem exists, some ramp exists (probably, again no >> evidence here), Jews exist. These things are in the Bible. So what? >> >> Medina is in the Qu'ran. London is in Harry Potter. I don't claim their >> literal truth on that basis.- Hide quoted text - >> > > I am not trying to sway your atheism. In my entire life I have only > seen one atheist convert to Christianity. No other person was > involved in that. She was staying in a hotel and started to read the > scriptures that were in the hotel dresser drawer. I just use the > tunnel as a reference to the Bible because the Bible describes its > construction. Believe whatever you want. I do not care what you > believe. So whenever atheists try to change the subject to something > they want to talk about such as Harry Potter, I change the subject > back to Hezekiah's tunnel. How long this will continue, I cannot > say. I though atheists would give up on it much sooner. No, we're dogged when fighting lunacy! :-)
From: rbwinn on 3 Jul 2008 00:33
On Jul 2, 3:59�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 00:13:46 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism > "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote in > <871cf3fc-2cb9-42aa-99d8-bc4efed0a...(a)s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>: > > > > > > >On Jul 2, 3:34 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >> On Jul 1, 6:43 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > > >> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >> > On Jul 2, 11:27 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > >> > > On Jul 1, 1:14 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >> > > > rbwinn wrote: > >> > > > > On Jul 1, 12:34 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> > > > >> rbwinn wrote: > >> > > > >>> On Jun 30, 12:25 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> > > > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >> > > > >>>>> On Jun 28, 6:06?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> > > > >>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> > > > >>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> > > > >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> > > > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi....(a)juno.com> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi....(a)juno.com> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> > > > >>>>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > >> > > > >>>>>>>> So? > >> > > > >>>>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - > >> > > > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> > > > >>>>>>> I never have believed in evolution. ?I think it is a fable, just as > >> > > > >>>>>>> Paul said it was. > >> > > > >>>>>> Paul knew nothing about it. You mock the Bible with such silly > >> > > > >>>>>> interpretations of it.- Hide quoted text - > >> > > > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> > > > >>>>> I just believe what Paul said. �You seem a little upset that I do not > >> > > > >>>>> believe your fable. > >> > > > >>>> Can you please identify what he said about it? Please?- Hide quoted text - > >> > > > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >> > > > >>> 2 Tim 4:3 �For the time will come when they will not endure sound > >> > > > >>> doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves > >> > > > >>> teachers, having itching ears; > >> > > > >>> 4 � And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be > >> > > > >>> turned unto fables. > >> > > > >> I can't see any mention of evolution. I can't even see any description > >> > > > >> of the theory, or even a theistic strawman description. Can you help me > >> > > > >> out? You made a claim that seems difficult to substantiate.- Hide quoted text - > > >> > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >> > > > > Well, I think we are getting into subject matter that is too difficult > >> > > > > for you. �Maybe we should go back to Hezekiah's tunnel. > > >> > > > I'm not struggling, maybe you could point out the verse where evolution > >> > > > is singled out. Maybe he's talking about the germ theory of disease. I'm > >> > > > sure you believe that demons are behind illness, rather than pathogens.- Hide quoted text - > > >> > > > - Show quoted text - > > >> > > Well, Paul said that in the last days, men would be turned to fables > >> > > to explain things. �So today we see science explaining most things by > >> > > fables. > >> > > Robert B. Winn > > >> > Please explain how "evolution" counts as a fable? �And we'll show you > >> > how you understanding of evolution is horribly wrong. > > >> > Al- Hide quoted text - > > >> > - Show quoted text - > > >> Well, as Paul pointed out, in the last days men would be unable to > >> endure sound doctrine and would devise a fable to try to explain the > >> existence of mankind without a God. > >> Robert B. Winn > > >That doesn't relate evolution to a fable. > >Do you ever answer a question that isn't just from your own > >imagination? > > >Al > > I do think that Paul was being pretty slick when he predicted that > someone would call him on his BS, but that his followers should ignore > that he had nothing at all to back up his claims.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, probably the best one to explain your idea to would be Jesus Christ. Robert B. Winn |