Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: BuddyThunder on 3 Jul 2008 17:05 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 2, 4:03�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 22:38:13 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism >> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in >> <57394af9-c4e1-41e3-9575-3efdee6c1...(a)k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>: >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jul 1, 7:11?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:23:02 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism >>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in >>>> <5a6e721c-a4e8-41e0-b92d-5724b8818...(a)c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>: >>>>> On Jul 1, 1:13?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>> atheists.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> Well, I am sure you will not. ?What would their reaction be to >>>>>>> discover that the apostle Paul had identified the theory of evolution >>>>>>> as a fable? >>>>>> They would accuse you of lying too. It's the only sensible reaction to >>>>>> your lies.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> Well, I think that is exactly right. ?Atheists accuse anyone who >>>>> disagrees with their atheistic doctrines of lying. >>>> That's your excuse. I call you a liar because you are lying. It has >>>> nothing to do with disagreeing with you, it has to do with the fact that >>>> you have chosen to lie repeatedly to us. It must be sad for you that >>>> everyone, even the lowly atheists, can see how totally untrustworthy and >>>> dishonest you are.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Uh huh. �Well, why is it that you think I should care what you think >>> about me? >> You should care about the impression you make. Being a liar doesn't earn >> you respect, not even from those who share your beliefs.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > People who share my beliefs never accuse me of lying. We get along > fine. Perhaps you don't lie to those people quite so much, we'll never know. You have lied here though. You've lied a lot.
From: BuddyThunder on 3 Jul 2008 17:09 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 2, 8:43 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 2, 2:22 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jul 2, 12:07 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jul 1, 1:13�pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>> atheists.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>> Well, I am sure you will not. �What would their reaction be to >>>>>>>>> discover that the apostle Paul had identified the theory of evolution >>>>>>>>> as a fable? >>>>>>>> They would accuse you of lying too. It's the only sensible reaction to >>>>>>>> your lies.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> Well, I think that is exactly right. Atheists accuse anyone who >>>>>>> disagrees with their atheistic doctrines of lying. >>>>>> Not so much. I will call someone a liar when they lie to me. Call me old >>>>>> fashioned. Like that time you told me that I didn't believe in the >>>>>> tunnel. That was a lie. Or where you said that a post was made up-thread >>>>>> claiming that nothing in the Bible was true. Another lie. Need I continue?- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> Well, it may be that you do believe in the tunnel, but if it was to >>>>> the advantage of atheists to deny its existence, then you would say it >>>>> does not exist. The tunnel does not present that kind of opportunity >>>>> because it is well documented, so you pretend that it exists but does >>>>> not mean anything. You do not need to continue. I would personally >>>>> like to see you just talk to other atheists. But I think you will >>>>> continue to post to me. >>>> I've never denied the tunnel. That was your lie about me. I will ask you >>>> again politely to stop. >>>> You're right, I will reply because I want to understand why you believe >>>> the tunnel should sway my atheism. I really can't see the hand of God in >>>> anything you've posted. He always seems to be hiding to me when he >>>> should be most obvious. Almost like he doesn't exist. >>>> A tunnel exists, Jerusalem exists, some ramp exists (probably, again no >>>> evidence here), Jews exist. These things are in the Bible. So what? >>>> Medina is in the Qu'ran. London is in Harry Potter. I don't claim their >>>> literal truth on that basis.- Hide quoted text - >>> I am not trying to sway your atheism. In my entire life I have only >>> seen one atheist convert to Christianity. No other person was >>> involved in that. She was staying in a hotel and started to read the >>> scriptures that were in the hotel dresser drawer. I just use the >>> tunnel as a reference to the Bible because the Bible describes its >>> construction. Believe whatever you want. I do not care what you >>> believe. So whenever atheists try to change the subject to something >>> they want to talk about such as Harry Potter, I change the subject >>> back to Hezekiah's tunnel. How long this will continue, I cannot >>> say. I though atheists would give up on it much sooner. >> No, we're dogged when fighting lunacy! :-)- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Well, If you want to deny the existence of something, you are free to > do that. If you want to try to change the subject to Harry Potter , > you are free to do that, It does not mean anything to me. I am free > to refer you back to reality. Hezekiah's tunnel is real. If you want to show yourself to be totally disconnected with reality, you're free to do that. If you want to wallow in your ignorance and bigotry, you're free to do that. If you choose to allow blind faith to totally poison your thinking, knock yourself right out. If you want to try and lie yourself out of a difficult position, that is your right. You haven't fooled anyone though. You'll say you don't care, right?
From: BuddyThunder on 3 Jul 2008 17:12 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 2, 4:03�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 22:13:21 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism >> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in >> <f028bc18-d1bb-4772-a436-fb649e3ff...(a)59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>: >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jul 1, 5:05?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 07:31:29 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism >>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in >>>> <ccc732d9-4c47-442b-ad22-fc806fe8b...(a)z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>: >>>>> On Jul 1, 12:32?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> Free Lunch wrote: >>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:26:07 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism >>>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in >>>>>>> <b804ab27-a92f-4ef2-a69c-54dd80028...(a)j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>: >>>>>>>> On Jun 30, 12:25?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Free Lunch wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:15:20 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 6:06?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>> I never have believed in evolution. ?I think it is a fable, just as >>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul said it was. >>>>>>>>>>>> Paul knew nothing about it. You mock the Bible with such silly >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretations of it.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>> I just believe what Paul said. ?You seem a little upset that I do not >>>>>>>>>>> believe your fable. >>>>>>>>>> Your problem is that you _lied_ about what Paul said. He _never_ said >>>>>>>>>> that evolution was a fable. That was the lie you told, one you cannot >>>>>>>>>> back up with _anything_ in the Bible, not from Paul, not from anywhere. >>>>>>>>> It's gotta be tough to keep 'em all in a row this far down the road!- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>> Well, if Paul had named Charles Darwin by name, atheists would claim >>>>>>>> he was not talking about evolution. >>>>>>> You know you lied to us, but you are trying to run away from your >>>>>>> behavior when you were caught. >>>>>> It is not weakness to admit a mistake, Robert. We won't tell the other >>>>>> atheists.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> Well, I am sure you will not. ?What would their reaction be to >>>>> discover that the apostle Paul had identified the theory of evolution >>>>> as a fable? >>>> He did not. You lied to us about that. Remember?- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Well, the best one to ask about that would be Paul. >> Paul is dead.- Hide quoted text - >> > Well, that is why you will have to wait until both of you have been > resurrected. I think Paul would be able to convince you. Got nuthin'?
From: BuddyThunder on 3 Jul 2008 17:23 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 2, 4:03�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 22:13:21 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism >> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in >> <f028bc18-d1bb-4772-a436-fb649e3ff...(a)59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>: >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jul 1, 5:05?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 07:31:29 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism >>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in >>>> <ccc732d9-4c47-442b-ad22-fc806fe8b...(a)z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>: >>>>> On Jul 1, 12:32?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> Free Lunch wrote: >>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:26:07 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism >>>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in >>>>>>> <b804ab27-a92f-4ef2-a69c-54dd80028...(a)j33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>: >>>>>>>> On Jun 30, 12:25?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Free Lunch wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:15:20 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 6:06?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>> I never have believed in evolution. ?I think it is a fable, just as >>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul said it was. >>>>>>>>>>>> Paul knew nothing about it. You mock the Bible with such silly >>>>>>>>>>>> interpretations of it.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>> I just believe what Paul said. ?You seem a little upset that I do not >>>>>>>>>>> believe your fable. >>>>>>>>>> Your problem is that you _lied_ about what Paul said. He _never_ said >>>>>>>>>> that evolution was a fable. That was the lie you told, one you cannot >>>>>>>>>> back up with _anything_ in the Bible, not from Paul, not from anywhere. >>>>>>>>> It's gotta be tough to keep 'em all in a row this far down the road!- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>> Well, if Paul had named Charles Darwin by name, atheists would claim >>>>>>>> he was not talking about evolution. >>>>>>> You know you lied to us, but you are trying to run away from your >>>>>>> behavior when you were caught. >>>>>> It is not weakness to admit a mistake, Robert. We won't tell the other >>>>>> atheists.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> Well, I am sure you will not. ?What would their reaction be to >>>>> discover that the apostle Paul had identified the theory of evolution >>>>> as a fable? >>>> He did not. You lied to us about that. Remember?- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Well, the best one to ask about that would be Paul. >> Paul is dead.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > How did Paul end up dead if he never existed? Harry Potter is not > dead. He is not alive. He is just a fictional character in a book. > So explain how Paul never existed, but now he is dead. Well, someone wrote those letters. At least one person, much more likely more. We can collectively call them "Paul" if it makes you comfortable. :-)
From: BuddyThunder on 3 Jul 2008 17:25
rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 2, 4:01�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 22:11:58 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism >> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in >> <c814e6b2-460a-44d6-b765-aad82332d...(a)z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>: >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jul 1, 5:03?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:24:32 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism >>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in >>>> <6fbc8acb-105d-435d-b962-ddf76fb3d...(a)p39g2000prm.googlegroups.com>: >>>>> On Jun 30, 12:25?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 6:06?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. >>>>>>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? >>>>>>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact >>>>>>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. >>>>>>>>>> So? >>>>>>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>> I never have believed in evolution. ?I think it is a fable, just as >>>>>>>>> Paul said it was. >>>>>>>> Paul knew nothing about it. You mock the Bible with such silly >>>>>>>> interpretations of it.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> I just believe what Paul said. ?You seem a little upset that I do not >>>>>>> believe your fable. >>>>>> Can you please identify what he said about it? Please?- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> 2 Tim 4:3 ?For the time will come when they will not endure sound >>>>> doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves >>>>> teachers, having itching ears; >>>>> 4 ? And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be >>>>> turned unto fables. >>>> As you _know_, this says nothing about evolution. I've see >>>> three-year-olds who can tell more convincing lies than you do.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Well, I think we should just wait until after the resurrection and ask >>> Paul if he was talking about evolution. >>> Robert B. Winn >> Why do you avoid the question? >> >> I might as well say that we should wait until Ragnarok to find out if >> you are Loki.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Anything I say you are just going to say I am lying. I think you need > to talk to the apostle Paul in order to become convinced. That means > it will have to wait until you are resurrected. Simple solution to that conundrum: stop lying. |