Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 00:32 On Jul 3, 3:57�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:26:00 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > in alt.atheism: > > > > > > >On Jul 2, 2:15�pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >> > On Jul 1, 8:49?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> >> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:14:36 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> wrote: > > >> >>> On Jul 1, 1:07?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> >>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 00:17:22 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >>>> wrote: > >> >>>>> On Jun 30, 3:58?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> >>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:06:02 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >>>>>> wrote: > >> >>>>>>> On Jun 29, 4:12?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:23:58 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> >>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 7:07?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:06:07 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> >>>>>>>> ... > >> >>>>>>>>>>> I did not lie. ?There actually is a conduit for water between Gihon > >> >>>>>>>>>>> spring and the pool of Siloam. > >> >>>>>>>>>> And, as you know, that is not the lie I have pointed out to you. You lie > >> >>>>>>>>>> here by falsely and intentionally trying to distract us from the lie > >> >>>>>>>>>> under discussion. You know that no one imposes abortion in the United > >> >>>>>>>>>> States. That is another in a long line of lies that you refuse to repent > >> >>>>>>>>>> of.- Hide quoted text - > >> >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> >>>>>>>>> The Supreme Court and other atheists imposed abortion on the United > >> >>>>>>>>> States. > >> >>>>>>>> Abortion is not imposed. You know that. No one is ever forced to have an > >> >>>>>>>> abortion by our government. Stop lying to us. > >> >>>>>>> Women have been forced to have abortions in order to get welfare > >> >>>>>>> assistance. > >> >>>>>> Bullshit. Citation, please. > >> >>>>> And our government still recognizes our right to trial by jury, > >> >>>>> right? > >> >>>> Nice attempt at distraction, but completely irrelevant. This has > >> >>>> absolutely nothing to do with women being forced to have abortions in > >> >>>> order to get welfare assistance. Which is still a completely bogus > >> >>>> claim on your part. > >> >>>>> How gullible do you think I am about "our government"? ?Or > >> >>>>> maybe you are just including atheists when you say "our government". > >> >>>> I didn't say you were gullible, I said you were lying. Your pathetic > >> >>>> attempt to change the subject, rather than support your claim, just > >> >>>> confirms my assessment. > >> >>> I personally know one woman who was subjected to governmental > >> >>> reproduction control. > >> >> Was she Chinese? Seriously, put up, or shut up. You made a claim; now > >> >> either back it up or retract it.- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> > Do atheists have some special program for Chinese women in the United > >> > States? �We know they do in China. �However, there are a lot of women > >> > in the United States you do not even seem to consider, women in mental > >> > institutions, women in prisons, etc., but the one I know personally > >> > was just a woman who applied for welfare assistance. > > >> Playing a slippery game, aren't you Robert? ;-)- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >I am not playing a game. �Atheists run China, and women in China > >definitely do get government ordered abortions. > > It's a bit more complex than that, none of this has anything to do with > atheism as you must know, but since you are someone who has a > third-grade understanding of the world and your religion, I can > understand how you got confused. > > >It also happens here in the United States. > > You keep claiming this. You appear to be lying. If you were not lying, > you would have been pointing us to evidence.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - So what do you think you are running here, a court of law? Real judges do not impress me. What made you think that imitators like you would? Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 00:38 On Jul 3, 4:13�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:39:14 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > in alt.atheism: > > > > > > >On Jul 2, 4:03?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 22:38:13 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism > >> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in > >> <57394af9-c4e1-41e3-9575-3efdee6c1...(a)k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>: > > >> >On Jul 1, 7:11?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:23:02 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism > >> >> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in > >> >> <5a6e721c-a4e8-41e0-b92d-5724b8818...(a)c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>: > > >> >> >On Jul 1, 1:13?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> >> >> rbwinn wrote: > > >> >> >> >> atheists.- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> >> >> > Well, I am sure you will not. ?What would their reaction be to > >> >> >> > discover that the apostle Paul had identified the theory of evolution > >> >> >> > as a fable? > > >> >> >> They would accuse you of lying too. It's the only sensible reaction to > >> >> >> your lies.- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> >> >Well, I think that is exactly right. ?Atheists accuse anyone who > >> >> >disagrees with their atheistic doctrines of lying. > > >> >> That's your excuse. I call you a liar because you are lying. It has > >> >> nothing to do with disagreeing with you, it has to do with the fact that > >> >> you have chosen to lie repeatedly to us. It must be sad for you that > >> >> everyone, even the lowly atheists, can see how totally untrustworthy and > >> >> dishonest you are.- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> >Uh huh. ?Well, why is it that you think I should care what you think > >> >about me? > > >> You should care about the impression you make. Being a liar doesn't earn > >> you respect, not even from those who share your beliefs.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >People who share my beliefs never accuse me of lying. � We get along > >fine. > > Does anyone share the faith you have? You certainly aren't an orthodox > Latter-Day Saint.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, so why don't you write church headquarters in Salt Lake City and tell them what an orthodox Latter-Day Saint is? Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 00:39 On Jul 3, 4:15�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 03:44:40 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > in alt.atheism: > > >On Jul 2, 5:28?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > ... > > >> Your claim is completely without support. Since you rely on an > >> indefensible claim for the rest of your doctrine, your doctrines are not > >> worth considering. > > >Well, I consider God to be sufficient support. �If you think He is > >not, �go ahead and try to prove it. > >Robert B. Winn > > Please provide any evidence that any claim ever made about God is true. Well, there is an earthen ramp that the Assyrian army built to get over the city wall at Lachish. Atheists do not believe in the earthen ramp. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 00:42 On Jul 3, 4:50�pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:15:28 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > wrote: > > > > > > >On Jul 3, 1:21?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:57:37 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> wrote: > > >> >On Jul 2, 5:50?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> >> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:01:29 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> wrote: > > >> >> >On Jul 2, 1:32?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 05:35:47 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> >> wrote: > > >> >> >> >On Jul 1, 8:49?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:14:36 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno..com> > >> >> >> >> wrote: > > >> >> >> >> >On Jul 1, 1:07?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 00:17:22 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> >> >> >> wrote: > > >> >> >> >> >> >On Jun 30, 3:58?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:06:02 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi....(a)juno.com> > >> >> >> >> >> >> wrote: > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Jun 29, 4:12?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:23:58 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> wrote in alt.atheism: > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Jun 29, 7:07?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:06:07 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> wrote in alt.atheism: > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ... > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >I did not lie. ?There actually is a conduit for water between Gihon > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >spring and the pool of Siloam. > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> And, as you know, that is not the lie I have pointed out to you. You lie > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> here by falsely and intentionally trying to distract us from the lie > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> under discussion. You know that no one imposes abortion in the United > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> States. That is another in a long line of lies that you refuse to repent > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> of.- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >The Supreme Court and other atheists imposed abortion on the United > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >States. > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Abortion is not imposed. You know that. No one is ever forced to have an > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> abortion by our government. Stop lying to us. > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >Women have been forced to have abortions in order to get welfare > >> >> >> >> >> >> >assistance. > > >> >> >> >> >> >> Bullshit. Citation, please. > > >> >> >> >> >> >And our government still recognizes our right to trial by jury, > >> >> >> >> >> >right? > > >> >> >> >> >> Nice attempt at distraction, but completely irrelevant. This has > >> >> >> >> >> absolutely nothing to do with women being forced to have abortions in > >> >> >> >> >> order to get welfare assistance. Which is still a completely bogus > >> >> >> >> >> claim on your part. > > >> >> >> >> >> > How gullible do you think I am about "our government"? ?Or > >> >> >> >> >> >maybe you are just including atheists when you say "our government". > > >> >> >> >> >> I didn't say you were gullible, I said you were lying. Your pathetic > >> >> >> >> >> attempt to change the subject, rather than support your claim, just > >> >> >> >> >> confirms my assessment. > >> >> >> >> >I personally know one woman who was subjected to governmental > >> >> >> >> >reproduction control. > > >> >> >> >> Was she Chinese? Seriously, put up, or shut up. You made a claim; now > >> >> >> >> either back it up or retract it.- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> >> >Do atheists have some special program for Chinese women in the United > >> >> >> >States? ?We know they do in China. ?However, there are a lot of women > >> >> >> >in the United States you do not even seem to consider, women in mental > >> >> >> >institutions, women in prisons, etc., but the one I know personally > >> >> >> >was just a woman who applied for welfare assistance. > > >> >> >> IOW, you have nothing to support your claim. Thanks for clearing that > >> >> >> up. > > >> >> >You are free to believe or disbelieve what I said about this woman, > >> >> >just as you are free to believe or disbelieve anything else I say. > >> >> >Does this seem unfair to you? > > >> >> What seems unclear to me is why you insist on violating your > >> >> religion's commandment against bearing false witness. Quite frankly, > >> >> you're insulting everyone's intelligence by telling such a transparent > >> >> lie, although when combined with the fact that you seem to doubt > >> >> everything anyone else tells you, however innocuous, it suggests that > >> >> the reason might be that you're a pathological liar, projecting your > >> >> problem onto everyone else.- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> >Sorry, but I do personally know a woman who was given that choice. > > >> Repeating your claim does not make it any more believable. Perhaps if > >> you were to provide a detailed account of > > >> -what State and city this occurred in > >> -what agency made such a demand, and > >> -in what context, and on what legal or procedural basis > > >> it might be slightly more believable. Until then, it's not the > >> slightest bit credible. > > >Uh huh, and you do not believe that it happens in China > > Nice try, but you're not weaseling out of this. The question is not > what happens in China, but what happens in the US, specifically to the > woman you claim to know. Put up or shut up.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, I would certainly not want to cause a bunch of atheists to bother that woman. I think we need to talk about Hezekiah's tunnel instead. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 00:43
On Jul 3, 5:07�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:33:39 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > in alt.atheism: > > > > > > >On Jul 2, 3:59?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 00:13:46 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism > >> "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote in > >> <871cf3fc-2cb9-42aa-99d8-bc4efed0a...(a)s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>: > > >> >On Jul 2, 3:34 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >> >> On Jul 1, 6:43 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > > >> >> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >> >> > On Jul 2, 11:27 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > >> >> > > On Jul 1, 1:14 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >> >> > > > rbwinn wrote: > >> >> > > > > On Jul 1, 12:34 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> >> > > > >> rbwinn wrote: > >> >> > > > >>> On Jun 30, 12:25 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> >> > > > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >> >> > > > >>>>> On Jun 28, 6:06?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >> > > > >>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi....(a)juno.com> > >> >> > > > >>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> >> > > > >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>> So? > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - > >> >> > > > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> >> > > > >>>>>>> I never have believed in evolution. ?I think it is a fable, just as > >> >> > > > >>>>>>> Paul said it was. > >> >> > > > >>>>>> Paul knew nothing about it. You mock the Bible with such silly > >> >> > > > >>>>>> interpretations of it.- Hide quoted text - > >> >> > > > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >> >> > > > >>>>> I just believe what Paul said. ?You seem a little upset that I do not > >> >> > > > >>>>> believe your fable. > >> >> > > > >>>> Can you please identify what he said about it? Please?- Hide quoted text - > >> >> > > > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >> >> > > > >>> 2 Tim 4:3 ?For the time will come when they will not endure sound > >> >> > > > >>> doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves > >> >> > > > >>> teachers, having itching ears; > >> >> > > > >>> 4 ? And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be > >> >> > > > >>> turned unto fables. > >> >> > > > >> I can't see any mention of evolution. I can't even see any description > >> >> > > > >> of the theory, or even a theistic strawman description. Can you help me > >> >> > > > >> out? You made a claim that seems difficult to substantiate..- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >> >> > > > > Well, I think we are getting into subject matter that is too difficult > >> >> > > > > for you. ?Maybe we should go back to Hezekiah's tunnel. > > >> >> > > > I'm not struggling, maybe you could point out the verse where evolution > >> >> > > > is singled out. Maybe he's talking about the germ theory of disease. I'm > >> >> > > > sure you believe that demons are behind illness, rather than pathogens.- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> > > > - Show quoted text - > > >> >> > > Well, Paul said that in the last days, men would be turned to fables > >> >> > > to explain things. ?So today we see science explaining most things by > >> >> > > fables. > >> >> > > Robert B. Winn > > >> >> > Please explain how "evolution" counts as a fable? ?And we'll show you > >> >> > how you understanding of evolution is horribly wrong. > > >> >> > Al- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> > - Show quoted text - > > >> >> Well, as Paul pointed out, in the last days men would be unable to > >> >> endure sound doctrine and would devise a fable to try to explain the > >> >> existence of mankind without a God. > >> >> Robert B. Winn > > >> >That doesn't relate evolution to a fable. > >> >Do you ever answer a question that isn't just from your own > >> >imagination? > > >> >Al > > >> I do think that Paul was being pretty slick when he predicted that > >> someone would call him on his BS, but that his followers should ignore > >> that he had nothing at all to back up his claims.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >Well, probably the best one to explain your idea to would be Jesus > >Christ. > > As you know, there is no evidence that He exists now and very little > that supports the claim that He once existed.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, his sheep know his voice. Atheists do not. Robert B. Winn |