Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: Alex W. on 4 Jul 2008 08:44 "The Natural Philosopher" <a(a)b.c> wrote in message news:1215166228.23766.0(a)proxy01.news.clara.net... > They say God was a Welshman: No one else, when creating Man and Woman, > would have put a leisure center next to a waste disposal unit. God can't have been a Welshman or we'd be extinct, having wasted all our seed on those alluring sheep ....
From: RobertL on 4 Jul 2008 09:20 On Jul 4, 12:12 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > On Jul 3, 2:31 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: ."..James wrote his epistle as an apostle. " easier to write than to say I guess.. Robert
From: Chris Shore on 4 Jul 2008 10:25 "rbwinn" <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:b5ef084b-b578-47aa-b9bf-1285e1588579(a)27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... >Well, there is an earthen ramp that the Assyrian army built to get >over the city wall at Lachish. Atheists do not believe in the earthen >ramp. Of course atheists believe in the ramp. It exists and its existence cannot be denied. But the existence of the ramp does not prove that the entire OT is fact, nor does it prove anything, anything at all, about God. What is your point in pointing out the existence of this thing? Chris
From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 11:02 On Jul 3, 11:38 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 3, 2:04 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 2, 8:42 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jul 2, 2:17 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jul 2, 12:45 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 5:00�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 07:27:47 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in > >>>>>>>>>> <6ec0a32a-3255-47d6-b573-5ace27ba6...(a)26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>:>On Jul 1, 12:29�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> ... > >>>>>>>>>>>>> No, you didn't. �I told you from the beginning that I was a Vietnam > >>>>>>>>>>>>> veteran. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Did you? I don't remember it. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Your record of lying has not served you well, it was an honestly-held > >>>>>>>>>>>> suspicion. I have been corrected. See how easy it is to admit that I was > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrong? > >>>>>>>>>>> How do you know I was telling the truth about being a Vietnam > >>>>>>>>>>> veteran? �Do you see how you are getting onto shaky ground here? > >>>>>>>>>> We don't. We also know that you lie to us all the time. Still, it > >>>>>>>>>> doesn't matter in this discussion whether you have lied to us about your > >>>>>>>>>> service in Vietnam or not. Do you have PTSD? > >>>>>>>>> What they accused me of was paranoid schizophrenia.  At the time I did > >>>>>>>>> not pay much attention to it until they started to try to kill me with > >>>>>>>>> tranquilizers.  The reason why I still talk to atheists is because > >>>>>>>>> they act exactly like people who work in psychiatry. > >>>>>>>>> They are people who hate me for no reason at all.  That is behavior > >>>>>>>>> that seems very strange to me. > >>>>>>>> I don't hate you at all, I just vigourously disagree with you. Actually, > >>>>>>>> I don't even understand you.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> Well, I am sure there were SS concentration camp guards who would say > >>>>>>> that they did not hate the Jews.  Actions sometimes speak louder than > >>>>>>> words. > >>>>>> Do you really think I'm comparable to a Nazi guard? No need to be so > >>>>>> defensive about your faith, no-one's forcing you to post! No-one's > >>>>>> forcing you to renounce your faith. Easy tiger, it ain't that bad! > >>>>>> I've even tried to be nice, but it's hard when you're being unfairly > >>>>>> compared to Nazis.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> All people who have ever lived can be compared to Nazis.  Some are > >>>>> worse than Nazis, some are better than Nazis.  Why would it bother you > >>>>> to be compared to Nazis?  I would not bother me.  I am nothing like > >>>>> any Nazi. > >>>> Then why make a meaningless comparrison like that? Except to dishonestly > >>>> smear your opponent by association. That's what religion has reduced you > >>>> to, and I think that's sad.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Wonderful.  Plus, atheists have forbidden mention of the Nazi Party. > >> Where is that forbidden, liar? Please stop lying, you're embarassing > >> yourself, but don't seem to know it! > > >> Maybe if you made your bigotry conform more closely to reality? ...- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Whenever someone mentions the Nazi Party, atheists always say, That is > > a violation of Godwin's law. > > So what? That's typically long past the time your arguments have > descended into farce. No-one can take you seriously at that point > because, well because I'm really not that much like a Nazi.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, Otto Schindler was not much like other Nazis, but he was a Nazi. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 11:07
On Jul 3, 11:58 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 3, 2:35 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 2, 6:11 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > >>> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >>>> On Jul 3, 9:59 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>> On Jul 2, 1:28 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > >>>>> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >>>>>> On Jul 2, 11:30 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jul 2, 12:13 am, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > >>>>>>> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 3:34 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 6:43 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > >>>>>>>>> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 11:27 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 1:14 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 12:34 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 30, 12:25 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 6:06�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi....(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never have believed in evolution. �I think it is a fable, just as > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul said it was. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul knew nothing about it. You mock the Bible with such silly > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interpretations of it.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just believe what Paul said.  You seem a little upset that I do not > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe your fable. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you please identify what he said about it? Please?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 Tim 4:3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teachers, having itching ears; > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned unto fables. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't see any mention of evolution. I can't even see any description > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the theory, or even a theistic strawman description. Can you help me > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> out? You made a claim that seems difficult to substantiate..- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I think we are getting into subject matter that is too difficult > >>>>>>>>>>>>> for you.  Maybe we should go back to Hezekiah's tunnel.. > >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not struggling, maybe you could point out the verse where evolution > >>>>>>>>>>>> is singled out. Maybe he's talking about the germ theory of disease. I'm > >>>>>>>>>>>> sure you believe that demons are behind illness, rather than pathogens.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>> Well, Paul said that in the last days, men would be turned to fables > >>>>>>>>>>> to explain things.  So today we see science explaining most things by > >>>>>>>>>>> fables. > >>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>> Please explain how "evolution" counts as a fable?  And we'll show you > >>>>>>>>>> how you understanding of evolution is horribly wrong. > >>>>>>>>>> Al- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> Well, as Paul pointed out, in the last days men would be unable to > >>>>>>>>> endure sound doctrine and would devise a fable to try to explain the > >>>>>>>>> existence of mankind without a God. > >>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>> That doesn't relate evolution to a fable. > >>>>>>>> Do you ever answer a question that isn't just from your own > >>>>>>>> imagination? > >>>>>>>> Al- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> It happened just the way Paul said it would. > >>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>> If you want to converse with the voices in your head, could you just > >>>>>> leave out alt.atheism in your replies?  Your posts are clearly not > >>>>>> related to anything you're clicking reply on. > >>>>>> Al- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> As I understand it I have given a response to one of your posts that > >>>>> does not comform to atheistic rules. > >>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>> Those would be those rules about not lying blatantly? > >>>> They're more like guidelines, and more Human than specifically > >>>> atheist. > >>> Well, Al, I always try to tell the truth.  Sometimes I am given > >>> information by atheists that turns out to be false, such as a large > >>> portion of what I was taught in school. > >> I'd love some examples of these "atheistic lies". You won't provide any > >> though, right?- Hide quoted text - > > > Well, we could start with Albert Einstein's description of > > transmission of light, which is not a lie, but turns out to be false. > > It requires a bona fide miracle to work.  This is one miracle that > > atheists never criticize. > > Can we get a real physicist with a loony filter here to translate?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - The Lorentz equations are x'=(x-vt)/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2) y'=y z'=z t'=(t-vx/c^2)/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2) These equations require that a moving object contract in length in the direction of movement. When the object reaches the speed of light its length is 0. Robert B. Winn |