Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: The Natural Philosopher on 4 Jul 2008 06:14 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 3, 6:39 pm, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: >> On Jul 3, 9:43 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jul 3, 6:05�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>> news:f807e4d0-b40f-4cb8-bb4c-12f00021898d(a)34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... >>>> Well, the scriptures say that the wicked would be more miserable in >>>> the presence of God than with the devils in hell. >>>> =========== >>>> In other words, since we are all sinful by definition, the smart choice is >>>> to aim for hell in the first place. �Nice morality .... >>> No, the smart choice is to repent of sins. However, atheists claim >>> that nothing they do is sin, so they are not going to repent. >>> Robert B. Winn >> So, what you have written so far is sin, please repent fast, real >> fast. >> However, since you loons always can ask for forgiveness, whatever sin >> committed never matters. >> We, OTOH, always careful to make sure we do the lawful and un-sinful >> things. >> That is the real difference between loons and atheists (or normal >> people).- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Right. So when atheist Josef Stalin killed 12 million people, he was > careful to do it in the lawful and un-sinful way. Yup. He slept as peaceful as a babe. He had redefined sin to be anything he personally wasn't and didn't like, or want to happen. About the same as your average fascist Christian. Sin is what you think it is. > Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 06:56 On Jul 3, 6:46�pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > news:32128d3b-a7e8-4746-9375-cb1f60a127be(a)k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > On Jul 2, 2:03 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > On Jul 1, 11:59 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >> rbwinn wrote: > > >>> On Jul 1, 1:04 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>> On Jul 1, 12:20 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>>>> On Jun 30, 1:19?pm, Enkidu <fox_rgf...(a)trashmail.net> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in news:22183802-cf28-4305-af11- > > >>>>>>>> 7d254b106...(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > > >>>>>>>>> You are the one being deliberately obtuse. ? The existence of > > >>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>> tunnel validates many other things said in the Bible about the > > >>>>>>>>> Assyrian invasion of Judea. > > >>>>>>>> "The Hobbit" talks of ale, axes, and forests which we know exist. > > >>>>>>>> Does that > > >>>>>>>> validate Orcs, Elves, Dwarves, trolls, magic rings, walking trees > > >>>>>>>> and Tom > > >>>>>>>> Bombadil? > > >>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>> Enkidu AA#2165 ? > > >>>>>>>> EAC Chaplain and ordained minister, > > >>>>>>>> ULC, Modesto, CA > > >>>>>>>> Doesn't anything socialistic make you want to throw up? Like > > >>>>>>>> great public > > >>>>>>>> schools, or health insurance for all? > > >>>>>>>> ? ? ?-Kurt Vonnegut > > >>>>>>> Why don't you decide for yourself? You were the one who thought of > > >>>>>>> it. > > >>>>>> Why don't you try to defend your assertions? How can we know we can > > >>>>>> trust what you say?- Hide quoted text - > > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > >>>>> It does not matter to me what you trust. You decide what you are > > >>>>> going to trust. > > >>>> If you can't provide any sensible reason to believe your fanciful > > >>>> claims, then I guess we're done.- Hide quoted text - > > >>>> - Show quoted text - > > >>> Fanciful claims? I said that the Jews dug a tunnel as a conduit for > > >>> water between Gihon spring and the pool of Siloam. Why do you think > > >>> that is a fanciful claim? > > >> That is not a fanciful claim. You and I both know that I'm referring to > > >> your supernatural claims. Those would be the ones you're completely > > >> unable to support with any evidence.- Hide quoted text - > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > > I have not made any claims to atheists except that the Jews dug a > > > tunnel to be used as a conduit for water, and the Assyrians built a > > > ramp out of dirt to get over the city wall at Lachish. To an atheist > > > these might seem like supernatural claims because there were actually > > > people working to accomplish both of these tasks instead of just > > > giving orders, criticism, etc., the way atheists do. Since atheists > > > have been unable to visualize these two events, there is no reason to > > > proceed on to anything more complex. > > > Then we're in total agreement. A tunnel was dug a long time ago and it > > got mentioned in some ancient writings, providing absolutlely no support > > for any supernatural claims. > > > So why all the posts?- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > You do not seem to be visualizing it very well. �The Assyrians came > into Judea with an army of hundreds of thousands on their way home > after taking a big chunk of Egypt. �Judea was a little dot in the > middle of the Assyrian kingdom, which extended from the Caspian Sea to > Egypt. �So why was there still a Kingdom of Judea when King > Sennacherib got back to his capitol city of Ninevah? � Sennacherib > himself says there was on the column he had erected in Ninevah. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > You believe what Sennacherib had written on that column? > Before you said that his account was false. Make up your mind. > Was he telling the truth or was he lying like you? > He was telling the truth about Judea still being there. He was lying about why. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 07:02 On Jul 3, 6:50�pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > news:f399bb3c-fd37-4211-8443-705bc2646418(a)p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > On Jul 3, 1:55 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > On Jul 2, 8:35 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >> rbwinn wrote: > > >>> On Jul 2, 2:03 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>> On Jul 1, 11:59 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>>>> On Jul 1, 1:04 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 12:20 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 30, 1:19?pm, Enkidu <fox_rgf...(a)trashmail.net> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in > > >>>>>>>>>>>> news:22183802-cf28-4305-af11- > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 7d254b106...(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> You are the one being deliberately obtuse. ? The existence > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnel validates many other things said in the Bible about > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Assyrian invasion of Judea. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> "The Hobbit" talks of ale, axes, and forests which we know > > >>>>>>>>>>>> exist. Does that > > >>>>>>>>>>>> validate Orcs, Elves, Dwarves, trolls, magic rings, walking > > >>>>>>>>>>>> trees and Tom > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Bombadil? > > >>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Enkidu AA#2165 ? > > >>>>>>>>>>>> EAC Chaplain and ordained minister, > > >>>>>>>>>>>> ULC, Modesto, CA > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Doesn't anything socialistic make you want to throw up? Like > > >>>>>>>>>>>> great public > > >>>>>>>>>>>> schools, or health insurance for all? > > >>>>>>>>>>>> ? ? ?-Kurt Vonnegut > > >>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you decide for yourself? You were the one who > > >>>>>>>>>>> thought of > > >>>>>>>>>>> it. > > >>>>>>>>>> Why don't you try to defend your assertions? How can we know we > > >>>>>>>>>> can > > >>>>>>>>>> trust what you say?- Hide quoted text - > > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > >>>>>>>>> It does not matter to me what you trust. You decide what you are > > >>>>>>>>> going to trust. > > >>>>>>>> If you can't provide any sensible reason to believe your fanciful > > >>>>>>>> claims, then I guess we're done.- Hide quoted text - > > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > >>>>>>> Fanciful claims? I said that the Jews dug a tunnel as a conduit > > >>>>>>> for > > >>>>>>> water between Gihon spring and the pool of Siloam. Why do you > > >>>>>>> think > > >>>>>>> that is a fanciful claim? > > >>>>>> That is not a fanciful claim. You and I both know that I'm > > >>>>>> referring to > > >>>>>> your supernatural claims. Those would be the ones you're completely > > >>>>>> unable to support with any evidence.- Hide quoted text - > > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > >>>>> I have not made any claims to atheists except that the Jews dug a > > >>>>> tunnel to be used as a conduit for water, and the Assyrians built a > > >>>>> ramp out of dirt to get over the city wall at Lachish. To an atheist > > >>>>> these might seem like supernatural claims because there were > > >>>>> actually > > >>>>> people working to accomplish both of these tasks instead of just > > >>>>> giving orders, criticism, etc., the way atheists do. Since atheists > > >>>>> have been unable to visualize these two events, there is no reason > > >>>>> to > > >>>>> proceed on to anything more complex. > > >>>> Then we're in total agreement. A tunnel was dug a long time ago and > > >>>> it > > >>>> got mentioned in some ancient writings, providing absolutlely no > > >>>> support > > >>>> for any supernatural claims. > > >>>> So why all the posts?- Hide quoted text - > > >>>> - Show quoted text - > > >>> You do not seem to be visualizing it very well. The Assyrians came > > >>> into Judea with an army of hundreds of thousands on their way home > > >>> after taking a big chunk of Egypt. Judea was a little dot in the > > >>> middle of the Assyrian kingdom, which extended from the Caspian Sea to > > >>> Egypt. So why was there still a Kingdom of Judea when King > > >>> Sennacherib got back to his capitol city of Ninevah? Sennacherib > > >>> himself says there was on the column he had erected in Ninevah. > > >> Or so the story goes.- Hide quoted text - > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > > What do you mean so the story goes? The column erected by Sennacherib > > > in Ninevah is still there today. He plainly says on it that Hezekiah > > > paid tribute to him, and he was such a nice guy that he just went home > > > after he got the money. > > > Great. Sennacherib went home and left Jerusalem unsacked. That doesn't > > mean that it was due to the angel of the lord slaughtering 185,000 > > troops in a night. > > > Why do you favour the oddly magical Biblical account over Sennacherib's?- > > Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > 186,000 troops. �Chaldean historians of the same time said that the > Assyrian army died of plague while besieging Jerusalem, and > Sennacherib fled in great fear back to his own city of Ninevah. > Sennacherib made no mention of losing his army on the column he > erected. �He seems to have pretended to his fellow Assyrians that the > army was still somewhere doing something, > ------------------------------------------- > Unevidenced conjecture. > ------------------------------------- There is nothing on the column about the Assyrian army being gone. > �but his own two sons > murdered him, probably because they were upset about him losing the > army. > --------------------------------- > more unevidenced conjecture. The Bible says his two sons murdered him. The Chaldean historians say his two sons murdered him. OK, let's see you do the atheist cheer. LIAR. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 07:04 On Jul 3, 7:06�pm, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: > On Jul 4, 4:31 am, "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_man...(a)aon.at> wrote: > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > One of the rules you have is that no mention be made of the Nazi > > > Party. �You atheists are a little sensitive about that. > > > Robert B. Winn > > > Not in the least.... > > > Nazis wrote on their banner 'God with Us', indeed! > > > Best regards, > > > Daniel Mandic > > Likewise with US, "In god we trust"........... > I would have thought that 9/11 has a "god" element... I would say that it probably does. Muslim nations are far more righteous than the United States when it comes to things like abortion. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 07:09
On Jul 3, 7:19 pm, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: > On Jul 4, 6:33 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 3, 2:01 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > > rbwinn wrote: > > > > On Jul 2, 5:52�pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > > > >> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:26:00 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > > >>> On Jul 2, 2:15�pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > > > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > > > >>>>> On Jul 1, 8:49?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > > > >>>>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:14:36 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>> On Jul 1, 1:07?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 00:17:22 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > > >>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 30, 3:58?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:06:02 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 4:12?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:23:58 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi....(a)juno.com> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 7:07?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:06:07 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi....(a)juno.com> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> ... > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did not lie. ?There actually is a conduit for water between Gihon > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spring and the pool of Siloam. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, as you know, that is not the lie I have pointed out to you. You lie > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> here by falsely and intentionally trying to distract us from the lie > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> under discussion. You know that no one imposes abortion in the United > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> States. That is another in a long line of lies that you refuse to repent > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of.- Hide quoted text - > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The Supreme Court and other atheists imposed abortion on the United > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> States. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Abortion is not imposed. You know that. No one is ever forced to have an > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> abortion by our government. Stop lying to us. > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Women have been forced to have abortions in order to get welfare > > > >>>>>>>>>>> assistance. > > > >>>>>>>>>> Bullshit. Citation, please. > > > >>>>>>>>> And our government still recognizes our right to trial by jury, > > > >>>>>>>>> right? > > > >>>>>>>> Nice attempt at distraction, but completely irrelevant. This has > > > >>>>>>>> absolutely nothing to do with women being forced to have abortions in > > > >>>>>>>> order to get welfare assistance. Which is still a completely bogus > > > >>>>>>>> claim on your part. > > > >>>>>>>>> How gullible do you think I am about "our government"? ?Or > > > >>>>>>>>> maybe you are just including atheists when you say "our government". > > > >>>>>>>> I didn't say you were gullible, I said you were lying. Your pathetic > > > >>>>>>>> attempt to change the subject, rather than support your claim, just > > > >>>>>>>> confirms my assessment. > > > >>>>>>> I personally know one woman who was subjected to governmental > > > >>>>>>> reproduction control. > > > >>>>>> Was she Chinese? Seriously, put up, or shut up. You made a claim; now > > > >>>>>> either back it up or retract it.- Hide quoted text - > > > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > > > >>>>> Do atheists have some special program for Chinese women in the United > > > >>>>> States? �We know they do in China. �However, there are a lot of women > > > >>>>> in the United States you do not even seem to consider, women in mental > > > >>>>> institutions, women in prisons, etc., but the one I know personally > > > >>>>> was just a woman who applied for welfare assistance. > > > >>>> Playing a slippery game, aren't you Robert? ;-)- Hide quoted text - > > > >>>> - Show quoted text - > > > >>> I am not playing a game. �Atheists run China, and women in China > > > >>> definitely do get government ordered abortions. �It also happens here > > > >>> in the United States. > > > >> Again, bullshit. Provide one *documented* example of it happening in > > > >> the US. Not an anecdote about some woman you claim to know. Your > > > >> credibility is zero until you back up your claim.- Hide quoted text - > > > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > > > Well, I would suspect that nothing like that ever gets documented. > > > > Here in Phoenix a woman went to an abortion clinic, bled to death > > > > after the doctor went home, and the staff of the abortion clinic put > > > > her in the trunk of a car.  Strangely, the police discovered when they > > > > found her body that none of it had been documented.  So we do know > > > > that sometimes things do not get documented. > > > > That is kind of sad. You have to do a lot of back-pedalling to try to > > > square your opinions with some vague notion of reality, don't you!- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > Your claim is that no woman in the United States has ever been > > subjected to reproductive control.  I say you are wrong.  I personally > > know a woman who was.  So let's talk about China.  Do you claim that > > no women in China have ever been subjected to reproduction control?  I > > believe that you atheists have a plan in place for the entire world, > > not just the United States and China. > > Robert B. Winn > > Yes, our plan is to rid this world of loonies and bigotry which is > leading the way backwards.... > You find that so bad?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, I believe Adolf Hitler had a similar plan. Just get rid of the inferior beings, and everything will be wonderful, right? So how does that get rid of bigotry? Robert B. Winn |