Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: BuddyThunder on 4 Jul 2008 02:32 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 3, 3:54�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:15:28 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote >> in alt.atheism: >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Jul 3, 1:21?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:57:37 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> On Jul 2, 5:50?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:01:29 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> On Jul 2, 1:32?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 05:35:47 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 8:49?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:14:36 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 1:07?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 00:17:22 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 30, 3:58?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:06:02 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 4:12?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:23:58 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 7:07?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:06:07 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did not lie. ?There actually is a conduit for water between Gihon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spring and the pool of Siloam. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, as you know, that is not the lie I have pointed out to you. You lie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here by falsely and intentionally trying to distract us from the lie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under discussion. You know that no one imposes abortion in the United >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> States. That is another in a long line of lies that you refuse to repent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Supreme Court and other atheists imposed abortion on the United >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> States. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abortion is not imposed. You know that. No one is ever forced to have an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> abortion by our government. Stop lying to us. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Women have been forced to have abortions in order to get welfare >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assistance. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bullshit. Citation, please. >>>>>>>>>>>>> And our government still recognizes our right to trial by jury, >>>>>>>>>>>>> right? >>>>>>>>>>>> Nice attempt at distraction, but completely irrelevant. This has >>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely nothing to do with women being forced to have abortions in >>>>>>>>>>>> order to get welfare assistance. Which is still a completely bogus >>>>>>>>>>>> claim on your part. >>>>>>>>>>>>> How gullible do you think I am about "our government"? ?Or >>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe you are just including atheists when you say "our government". >>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't say you were gullible, I said you were lying. Your pathetic >>>>>>>>>>>> attempt to change the subject, rather than support your claim, just >>>>>>>>>>>> confirms my assessment. >>>>>>>>>>> I personally know one woman who was subjected to governmental >>>>>>>>>>> reproduction control. >>>>>>>>>> Was she Chinese? Seriously, put up, or shut up. You made a claim; now >>>>>>>>>> either back it up or retract it.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>> Do atheists have some special program for Chinese women in the United >>>>>>>>> States? ?We know they do in China. ?However, there are a lot of women >>>>>>>>> in the United States you do not even seem to consider, women in mental >>>>>>>>> institutions, women in prisons, etc., but the one I know personally >>>>>>>>> was just a woman who applied for welfare assistance. >>>>>>>> IOW, you have nothing to support your claim. Thanks for clearing that >>>>>>>> up. >>>>>>> You are free to believe or disbelieve what I said about this woman, >>>>>>> just as you are free to believe or disbelieve anything else I say. >>>>>>> Does this seem unfair to you? >>>>>> What seems unclear to me is why you insist on violating your >>>>>> religion's commandment against bearing false witness. Quite frankly, >>>>>> you're insulting everyone's intelligence by telling such a transparent >>>>>> lie, although when combined with the fact that you seem to doubt >>>>>> everything anyone else tells you, however innocuous, it suggests that >>>>>> the reason might be that you're a pathological liar, projecting your >>>>>> problem onto everyone else.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> Sorry, but I do personally know a woman who was given that choice. >>>> Repeating your claim does not make it any more believable. Perhaps if >>>> you were to provide a detailed account of >>>> -what State and city this occurred in >>>> -what agency made such a demand, and >>>> -in what context, and on what legal or procedural basis >>>> it might be slightly more believable. Until then, it's not the >>>> slightest bit credible.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Uh huh, and you do not believe that it happens in China because the >>> atheists who run China are nice people. >> But you, you lying pile of feces, claimed that this happened in the >> United States. Of course you are also quite hateful in your implication >> that atheists in the United States defend the evil done in China.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Well, it seems to me that you do. I guess that just displays the extent of your disconnect from reality.
From: BuddyThunder on 4 Jul 2008 02:34 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 3, 2:01 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 2, 5:52�pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:26:00 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> On Jul 2, 2:15�pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jul 1, 8:49?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:14:36 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 1:07?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 00:17:22 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 30, 3:58?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:06:02 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 4:12?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:23:58 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 7:07?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:06:07 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I did not lie. ?There actually is a conduit for water between Gihon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spring and the pool of Siloam. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, as you know, that is not the lie I have pointed out to you. You lie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here by falsely and intentionally trying to distract us from the lie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under discussion. You know that no one imposes abortion in the United >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> States. That is another in a long line of lies that you refuse to repent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Supreme Court and other atheists imposed abortion on the United >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> States. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abortion is not imposed. You know that. No one is ever forced to have an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> abortion by our government. Stop lying to us. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Women have been forced to have abortions in order to get welfare >>>>>>>>>>>>> assistance. >>>>>>>>>>>> Bullshit. Citation, please. >>>>>>>>>>> And our government still recognizes our right to trial by jury, >>>>>>>>>>> right? >>>>>>>>>> Nice attempt at distraction, but completely irrelevant. This has >>>>>>>>>> absolutely nothing to do with women being forced to have abortions in >>>>>>>>>> order to get welfare assistance. Which is still a completely bogus >>>>>>>>>> claim on your part. >>>>>>>>>>> How gullible do you think I am about "our government"? ?Or >>>>>>>>>>> maybe you are just including atheists when you say "our government". >>>>>>>>>> I didn't say you were gullible, I said you were lying. Your pathetic >>>>>>>>>> attempt to change the subject, rather than support your claim, just >>>>>>>>>> confirms my assessment. >>>>>>>>> I personally know one woman who was subjected to governmental >>>>>>>>> reproduction control. >>>>>>>> Was she Chinese? Seriously, put up, or shut up. You made a claim; now >>>>>>>> either back it up or retract it.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> Do atheists have some special program for Chinese women in the United >>>>>>> States? �We know they do in China. �However, there are a lot of women >>>>>>> in the United States you do not even seem to consider, women in mental >>>>>>> institutions, women in prisons, etc., but the one I know personally >>>>>>> was just a woman who applied for welfare assistance. >>>>>> Playing a slippery game, aren't you Robert? ;-)- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> I am not playing a game. �Atheists run China, and women in China >>>>> definitely do get government ordered abortions. �It also happens here >>>>> in the United States. >>>> Again, bullshit. Provide one *documented* example of it happening in >>>> the US. Not an anecdote about some woman you claim to know. Your >>>> credibility is zero until you back up your claim.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Well, I would suspect that nothing like that ever gets documented. >>> Here in Phoenix a woman went to an abortion clinic, bled to death >>> after the doctor went home, and the staff of the abortion clinic put >>> her in the trunk of a car. Strangely, the police discovered when they >>> found her body that none of it had been documented. So we do know >>> that sometimes things do not get documented. >> That is kind of sad. You have to do a lot of back-pedalling to try to >> square your opinions with some vague notion of reality, don't you!- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Your claim is that no woman in the United States has ever been > subjected to reproductive control. I say you are wrong. I personally > know a woman who was. So let's talk about China. Do you claim that > no women in China have ever been subjected to reproduction control? I > believe that you atheists have a plan in place for the entire world, > not just the United States and China. I never claimed that, I know nothing of reproductive control in the US. I don't believe your claims, but that's more to do with your track record than with any liberal bias.
From: BuddyThunder on 4 Jul 2008 02:38 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 3, 2:04 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 2, 8:42 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jul 2, 2:17 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jul 2, 12:45 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 5:00�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 07:27:47 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in >>>>>>>>>> <6ec0a32a-3255-47d6-b573-5ace27ba6...(a)26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>:>On Jul 1, 12:29�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>>>> No, you didn't. �I told you from the beginning that I was a Vietnam >>>>>>>>>>>>> veteran. >>>>>>>>>>>> Did you? I don't remember it. >>>>>>>>>>>> Your record of lying has not served you well, it was an honestly-held >>>>>>>>>>>> suspicion. I have been corrected. See how easy it is to admit that I was >>>>>>>>>>>> wrong? >>>>>>>>>>> How do you know I was telling the truth about being a Vietnam >>>>>>>>>>> veteran? �Do you see how you are getting onto shaky ground here? >>>>>>>>>> We don't. We also know that you lie to us all the time. Still, it >>>>>>>>>> doesn't matter in this discussion whether you have lied to us about your >>>>>>>>>> service in Vietnam or not. Do you have PTSD? >>>>>>>>> What they accused me of was paranoid schizophrenia. At the time I did >>>>>>>>> not pay much attention to it until they started to try to kill me with >>>>>>>>> tranquilizers. The reason why I still talk to atheists is because >>>>>>>>> they act exactly like people who work in psychiatry. >>>>>>>>> They are people who hate me for no reason at all. That is behavior >>>>>>>>> that seems very strange to me. >>>>>>>> I don't hate you at all, I just vigourously disagree with you. Actually, >>>>>>>> I don't even understand you.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> Well, I am sure there were SS concentration camp guards who would say >>>>>>> that they did not hate the Jews. Actions sometimes speak louder than >>>>>>> words. >>>>>> Do you really think I'm comparable to a Nazi guard? No need to be so >>>>>> defensive about your faith, no-one's forcing you to post! No-one's >>>>>> forcing you to renounce your faith. Easy tiger, it ain't that bad! >>>>>> I've even tried to be nice, but it's hard when you're being unfairly >>>>>> compared to Nazis.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> All people who have ever lived can be compared to Nazis. Some are >>>>> worse than Nazis, some are better than Nazis. Why would it bother you >>>>> to be compared to Nazis? I would not bother me. I am nothing like >>>>> any Nazi. >>>> Then why make a meaningless comparrison like that? Except to dishonestly >>>> smear your opponent by association. That's what religion has reduced you >>>> to, and I think that's sad.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Wonderful. Plus, atheists have forbidden mention of the Nazi Party. >> Where is that forbidden, liar? Please stop lying, you're embarassing >> yourself, but don't seem to know it! >> >> Maybe if you made your bigotry conform more closely to reality? ...- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Whenever someone mentions the Nazi Party, atheists always say, That is > a violation of Godwin's law. So what? That's typically long past the time your arguments have descended into farce. No-one can take you seriously at that point because, well because I'm really not that much like a Nazi.
From: BuddyThunder on 4 Jul 2008 02:39 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 3, 2:05 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 2, 4:03�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 22:38:13 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism >>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in >>>> <57394af9-c4e1-41e3-9575-3efdee6c1...(a)k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>: >>>>> On Jul 1, 7:11?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:23:02 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism >>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in >>>>>> <5a6e721c-a4e8-41e0-b92d-5724b8818...(a)c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>: >>>>>>> On Jul 1, 1:13?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>> atheists.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>> Well, I am sure you will not. ?What would their reaction be to >>>>>>>>> discover that the apostle Paul had identified the theory of evolution >>>>>>>>> as a fable? >>>>>>>> They would accuse you of lying too. It's the only sensible reaction to >>>>>>>> your lies.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> Well, I think that is exactly right. ?Atheists accuse anyone who >>>>>>> disagrees with their atheistic doctrines of lying. >>>>>> That's your excuse. I call you a liar because you are lying. It has >>>>>> nothing to do with disagreeing with you, it has to do with the fact that >>>>>> you have chosen to lie repeatedly to us. It must be sad for you that >>>>>> everyone, even the lowly atheists, can see how totally untrustworthy and >>>>>> dishonest you are.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> Uh huh. �Well, why is it that you think I should care what you think >>>>> about me? >>>> You should care about the impression you make. Being a liar doesn't earn >>>> you respect, not even from those who share your beliefs.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> People who share my beliefs never accuse me of lying. We get along >>> fine. >> Perhaps you don't lie to those people quite so much, we'll never know. >> You have lied here though. You've lied a lot.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Well, no, there actually is a tunnel used as a conduit for water > between Gihon Spring and the Pool of Siloam. There actually is an > earthen ramp the Assyrian army constructed to get over the city wall > at Lachish. Atheists may not believe they exist, but they do. Ah, the tunnel. That's the only thing you've been able to point to that you've been remotely accurate or honest about.
From: BuddyThunder on 4 Jul 2008 02:45
rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 3, 2:09 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 2, 8:43 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jul 2, 2:22 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jul 2, 12:07 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 1:13�pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> atheists.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>>>> Well, I am sure you will not. �What would their reaction be to >>>>>>>>>>> discover that the apostle Paul had identified the theory of evolution >>>>>>>>>>> as a fable? >>>>>>>>>> They would accuse you of lying too. It's the only sensible reaction to >>>>>>>>>> your lies.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>>>> Well, I think that is exactly right. Atheists accuse anyone who >>>>>>>>> disagrees with their atheistic doctrines of lying. >>>>>>>> Not so much. I will call someone a liar when they lie to me. Call me old >>>>>>>> fashioned. Like that time you told me that I didn't believe in the >>>>>>>> tunnel. That was a lie. Or where you said that a post was made up-thread >>>>>>>> claiming that nothing in the Bible was true. Another lie. Need I continue?- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> Well, it may be that you do believe in the tunnel, but if it was to >>>>>>> the advantage of atheists to deny its existence, then you would say it >>>>>>> does not exist. The tunnel does not present that kind of opportunity >>>>>>> because it is well documented, so you pretend that it exists but does >>>>>>> not mean anything. You do not need to continue. I would personally >>>>>>> like to see you just talk to other atheists. But I think you will >>>>>>> continue to post to me. >>>>>> I've never denied the tunnel. That was your lie about me. I will ask you >>>>>> again politely to stop. >>>>>> You're right, I will reply because I want to understand why you believe >>>>>> the tunnel should sway my atheism. I really can't see the hand of God in >>>>>> anything you've posted. He always seems to be hiding to me when he >>>>>> should be most obvious. Almost like he doesn't exist. >>>>>> A tunnel exists, Jerusalem exists, some ramp exists (probably, again no >>>>>> evidence here), Jews exist. These things are in the Bible. So what? >>>>>> Medina is in the Qu'ran. London is in Harry Potter. I don't claim their >>>>>> literal truth on that basis.- Hide quoted text - >>>>> I am not trying to sway your atheism. In my entire life I have only >>>>> seen one atheist convert to Christianity. No other person was >>>>> involved in that. She was staying in a hotel and started to read the >>>>> scriptures that were in the hotel dresser drawer. I just use the >>>>> tunnel as a reference to the Bible because the Bible describes its >>>>> construction. Believe whatever you want. I do not care what you >>>>> believe. So whenever atheists try to change the subject to something >>>>> they want to talk about such as Harry Potter, I change the subject >>>>> back to Hezekiah's tunnel. How long this will continue, I cannot >>>>> say. I though atheists would give up on it much sooner. >>>> No, we're dogged when fighting lunacy! :-)- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> Well, If you want to deny the existence of something, you are free to >>> do that. If you want to try to change the subject to Harry Potter , >>> you are free to do that, It does not mean anything to me. I am free >>> to refer you back to reality. Hezekiah's tunnel is real. >> If you want to show yourself to be totally disconnected with reality, >> you're free to do that. If you want to wallow in your ignorance and >> bigotry, you're free to do that. If you choose to allow blind faith to >> totally poison your thinking, knock yourself right out. If you want to >> try and lie yourself out of a difficult position, that is your right. >> You haven't fooled anyone though. You'll say you don't care, right?- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Well, Hezaekiah's tunnel actually does exist. The earthen ramp > actually does exist. So if you line up all the atheists in the world > and get them all to say I am a liar, I can still determine that the > verses of the Bible that describe the construction of these things are > correct. Sorry to have to be the one to tell you this. I think it is > probably better that atheists start to face reality in this life. In reality you can't determine that at all. You're choosing to believe the account that accords with your religion. That's your choice. But you're doing that on faith. I thought faith was laudable - although I could never figure out why! |