Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 11:35 On Jul 4, 5:22�am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:42:00 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > in alt.atheism: > > > > > > >On Jul 3, 4:50?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:15:28 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> wrote: > > >> >On Jul 3, 1:21?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> >> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:57:37 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> wrote: > > >> >> >On Jul 2, 5:50?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 17:01:29 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> >> wrote: > > >> >> >> >On Jul 2, 1:32?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 05:35:47 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno..com> > >> >> >> >> wrote: > > >> >> >> >> >On Jul 1, 8:49?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:14:36 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> >> >> >> wrote: > > >> >> >> >> >> >On Jul 1, 1:07?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 00:17:22 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi....(a)juno.com> > >> >> >> >> >> >> wrote: > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Jun 30, 3:58?pm, raven1 <quoththera...(a)nevermore.com> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:06:02 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> wrote: > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Jun 29, 4:12?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:23:58 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> wrote in alt.atheism: > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >On Jun 29, 7:07?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:06:07 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> wrote in alt.atheism: > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ... > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >I did not lie. ?There actually is a conduit for water between Gihon > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >spring and the pool of Siloam. > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> And, as you know, that is not the lie I have pointed out to you. You lie > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> here by falsely and intentionally trying to distract us from the lie > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> under discussion. You know that no one imposes abortion in the United > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> States. That is another in a long line of lies that you refuse to repent > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> of.- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >The Supreme Court and other atheists imposed abortion on the United > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >States. > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Abortion is not imposed. You know that. No one is ever forced to have an > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> abortion by our government. Stop lying to us. > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Women have been forced to have abortions in order to get welfare > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >assistance. > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Bullshit. Citation, please. > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >And our government still recognizes our right to trial by jury, > >> >> >> >> >> >> >right? > > >> >> >> >> >> >> Nice attempt at distraction, but completely irrelevant. This has > >> >> >> >> >> >> absolutely nothing to do with women being forced to have abortions in > >> >> >> >> >> >> order to get welfare assistance. Which is still a completely bogus > >> >> >> >> >> >> claim on your part. > > >> >> >> >> >> >> > How gullible do you think I am about "our government"? ?Or > >> >> >> >> >> >> >maybe you are just including atheists when you say "our government". > > >> >> >> >> >> >> I didn't say you were gullible, I said you were lying. Your pathetic > >> >> >> >> >> >> attempt to change the subject, rather than support your claim, just > >> >> >> >> >> >> confirms my assessment. > >> >> >> >> >> >I personally know one woman who was subjected to governmental > >> >> >> >> >> >reproduction control. > > >> >> >> >> >> Was she Chinese? Seriously, put up, or shut up. You made a claim; now > >> >> >> >> >> either back it up or retract it.- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> >> >> >Do atheists have some special program for Chinese women in the United > >> >> >> >> >States? ?We know they do in China. ?However, there are a lot of women > >> >> >> >> >in the United States you do not even seem to consider, women in mental > >> >> >> >> >institutions, women in prisons, etc., but the one I know personally > >> >> >> >> >was just a woman who applied for welfare assistance. > > >> >> >> >> IOW, you have nothing to support your claim. Thanks for clearing that > >> >> >> >> up. > > >> >> >> >You are free to believe or disbelieve what I said about this woman, > >> >> >> >just as you are free to believe or disbelieve anything else I say. > >> >> >> >Does this seem unfair to you? > > >> >> >> What seems unclear to me is why you insist on violating your > >> >> >> religion's commandment against bearing false witness. Quite frankly, > >> >> >> you're insulting everyone's intelligence by telling such a transparent > >> >> >> lie, although when combined with the fact that you seem to doubt > >> >> >> everything anyone else tells you, however innocuous, it suggests that > >> >> >> the reason might be that you're a pathological liar, projecting your > >> >> >> problem onto everyone else.- Hide quoted text - > > >> >> >> - Show quoted text - > > >> >> >Sorry, but I do personally know a woman who was given that choice. > > >> >> Repeating your claim does not make it any more believable. Perhaps if > >> >> you were to provide a detailed account of > > >> >> -what State and city this occurred in > >> >> -what agency made such a demand, and > >> >> -in what context, and on what legal or procedural basis > > >> >> it might be slightly more believable. Until then, it's not the > >> >> slightest bit credible. > > >> >Uh huh, and you do not believe that it happens in China > > >> Nice try, but you're not weaseling out of this. The question is not > >> what happens in China, but what happens in the US, specifically to the > >> woman you claim to know. Put up or shut up.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >Well, I would certainly not want to cause a bunch of atheists to > >bother that woman. �I think we need to talk about Hezekiah's tunnel > >instead. > >Robert B. Winn > > As I understand the evidence, the tunnel is evidence that the Bible is > wrong. If I am mistaken, please provide evidence to the contrary.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - The Bible says that a conduit for water was dug between Gihon spring and the Pool of Siloam. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 4 Jul 2008 11:37 On Jul 4, 5:25�am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 04:27:50 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > in alt.atheism: > > >On Jul 3, 10:55�pm, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: > >> On Jul 4, 12:42 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > > ... > > > > > > >> > Well, I would certainly not want to cause a bunch of atheists to > >> > bother that woman. �I think we need to talk about Hezekiah's tunnel > >> > instead. > >> > Robert B. Winn > > >> If you want to emphasize the tunnel for the existence of your god, > >> isn't the London going to be the existence of Harry Porter? > >> If you recognize the fiction of Harry, shouldn't you know the human > >> invention of a " god"? > >> Or you wish to remain as hypocrite as any loon?- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > >No, the tunnel is just a reference of something that atheists have > >trouble denying, although they make every effort. �The same with the > >earthen ramp. �Three different books of the Bible describe the > >construction of the tunnel. �The New Testament mentions the Pool of > >Siloam , which is where the water goes which flows through the > >tunnel. � So there are verses in the New Testament as well as in the > >Old Testament which the tunnel verifies. > > The actual evidence about the tunnel shows us that the stories in the > Bible about it are wrong. Please, by all means, keep telling us of the > evidence that the Bible is made up.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, atheists, of course, are required to say that the Bible is wrong. So what is the Bible wrong about? Robert B. Winn
From: Free Lunch on 4 Jul 2008 11:39 On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:29:32 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in alt.atheism: >On Jul 4, 3:06�am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >> > On Jul 3, 5:32?pm, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >> >> >>news:9fadb87c-6364-49eb-9ca6-c8fd555f6cd3(a)a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... >> >> On Jul 3, 6:05?am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> >> >>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >> >>>news:f807e4d0-b40f-4cb8-bb4c-12f00021898d(a)34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... >> >>> Well, the scriptures say that the wicked would be more miserable in >> >>> the presence of God than with the devils in hell. >> >>> =========== >> >>> In other words, since we are all sinful by definition, the smart choice is >> >>> to aim for hell in the first place. ?Nice morality .... >> >> No, the smart choice is to repent of sins. ?However, atheists claim >> >> that nothing they do is sin, so they are not going to repent. >> >> >> ========== >> >> >> Sin is a social construct. ?It exists irrespective of the god(s) worshipped >> >> ... or not, as the case may be. >> >> > Well, there is no sin in heaven. �Maybe that is why atheists do not >> > want to go there. >> >> It's more true to say that by removing what you loosely term sin, you >> arrive at a place you loosely call heaven. >> >> However it is only one point on a certain map: there are many other >> places to visit.. >> >> As the Jewish mystics were well aware.. >> >> >Well, for instance, you could visit hell. Why anyone would want to >visit hell, I do not know. No, that is not possible. Hell does not exist.
From: Free Lunch on 4 Jul 2008 11:42 On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:28:00 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in alt.atheism: >On Jul 4, 3:03?am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: >> Alex W. wrote: >> > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >> >news:9fadb87c-6364-49eb-9ca6-c8fd555f6cd3(a)a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... >> > On Jul 3, 6:05?am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >> >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >> >> >>news:f807e4d0-b40f-4cb8-bb4c-12f00021898d(a)34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... >> >> >> Well, the scriptures say that the wicked would be more miserable in >> >> the presence of God than with the devils in hell. >> >> >> =========== >> >> >> In other words, since we are all sinful by definition, the smart choice is >> >> to aim for hell in the first place. ?Nice morality .... >> >> > No, the smart choice is to repent of sins. ?However, atheists claim >> > that nothing they do is sin, so they are not going to repent. >> >> Which to me indicates you have no idea what sin, or repentance, is. >> >> >> >> > ========== >> >> > Sin is a social construct. ?It exists irrespective of the god(s) worshipped >> > ... or not, as the case may be.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > >Sin is wilful disobedience of God. Repentance is confessing and >forsaking sin. As far as we can tell, God is a human invention. God never told us to do anything. Sin, therefore, is also a human invention.
From: Free Lunch on 4 Jul 2008 11:47
On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:37:10 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwinn3(a)juno.com> wrote in alt.atheism: >On Jul 4, 5:25?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 04:27:50 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote >> in alt.atheism: >> >> >On Jul 3, 10:55?pm, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: >> >> On Jul 4, 12:42 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: >> >> ... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Well, I would certainly not want to cause a bunch of atheists to >> >> > bother that woman. ?I think we need to talk about Hezekiah's tunnel >> >> > instead. >> >> > Robert B. Winn >> >> >> If you want to emphasize the tunnel for the existence of your god, >> >> isn't the London going to be the existence of Harry Porter? >> >> If you recognize the fiction of Harry, shouldn't you know the human >> >> invention of a " god"? >> >> Or you wish to remain as hypocrite as any loon?- Hide quoted text - >> >> >> - Show quoted text - >> >> >No, the tunnel is just a reference of something that atheists have >> >trouble denying, although they make every effort. ?The same with the >> >earthen ramp. ?Three different books of the Bible describe the >> >construction of the tunnel. ?The New Testament mentions the Pool of >> >Siloam , which is where the water goes which flows through the >> >tunnel. ? So there are verses in the New Testament as well as in the >> >Old Testament which the tunnel verifies. >> >> The actual evidence about the tunnel shows us that the stories in the >> Bible about it are wrong. Please, by all means, keep telling us of the >> evidence that the Bible is made up.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > >Well, atheists, of course, are required to say that the Bible is >wrong. So what is the Bible wrong about? Why do you repeat that lie after you have been corrected repeatedly? Atheists are not required to do anything. Stop claiming otherwise. The Bible contains many mistakes, from the creation stories, the Flood story, the Exodus, to the story about the Slaughter of the Innocents and the darkness at noon on Good Friday. It even got the provenance of a tunnel wrong. What do you think the Bible is right about? |