Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 1 Jul 2008 14:51 On Jul 1, 12:34 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 30, 12:25 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 28, 6:06�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. > >>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate > >>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. > >>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be > >>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals > >>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. > >>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. > >>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > >>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact > >>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > >>>>>> So? > >>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> I never have believed in evolution. �I think it is a fable, just as > >>>>> Paul said it was. > >>>> Paul knew nothing about it. You mock the Bible with such silly > >>>> interpretations of it.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> I just believe what Paul said.  You seem a little upset that I do not > >>> believe your fable. > >> Can you please identify what he said about it? Please?- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > 2 Tim 4:3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound > > doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves > > teachers, having itching ears; > > 4  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be > > turned unto fables. > > I can't see any mention of evolution. I can't even see any description > of the theory, or even a theistic strawman description. Can you help me > out? You made a claim that seems difficult to substantiate.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Certainly. This is easy to resolve. Just wait until after the resurrection, and ask Paul in person what he was writing about. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 1 Jul 2008 14:53 On Jul 1, 12:47 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 30, 12:33 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 29, 1:14 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 29, 12:22 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50�pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno..com> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than mythology and try ?to impose > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just believe whatever you want to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use the myth to formulate > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or inform foreign policy. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles Paul said they would be > >>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a story about animals > >>>>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into humans. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me surprised. > >>>>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > >>>>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your denial of the fact > >>>>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > >>>>>>>> So? > >>>>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> I never have believed in evolution.  I think it is a fable, just as > >>>>>>> Paul said it was. > >>>>>> Classic, got a scripture for that?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> Yes, we are still on the scripture in Isaiah that says that a tunnel > >>>>> was dug as a conduit for water between Gihon spring and the pool of > >>>>> Siloam. > >>>> Liar. Where did Paul tell you that evolution is a fable? Back up > >>>> something. Just one thing...- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> 2 Timothy 4:3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound > >>> doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves > >>> teachers, having itching ears; > >>> 4  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be > >>> turned unto fables. > >> Well, you tried. > > >> Where does he mention evolution? You claimed that Paul said evolution > >> was just a fable. That's an explicit claim, can you back it up? > > >> Maybe the fable he's talking about above is Christianity.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > No a fable is a story where an animal is used with human > > characteristics, such as monkeys turning into humans. > > So no scriptural mention of evolution then. At all. > > You mean the fable with the talking snake, demon-posessed pigs, unicorn, >  cud chewing rabbits, etc? Your own logic, once again, has demolished > your point. Don't you see it coming?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - You may doubt some of these things, but if you will read the account of Balaam and his donkey, I am sure you will be more inclined to believe. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 1 Jul 2008 14:56 On Jul 1, 12:52 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al) wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 1, 10:31 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >> On Jun 30, 2:57�pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > > >>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message news:deedcfe4-50c8-4aba-9a1f- > >>>> I am still in the religion I was born in. �I picked the religion I am in > >>>> before I > >>>> was born. > >>>> Robert B. Winn > >>> Probably the most idiotic thing you have ever said. > >>> Go on, I dare you try and explain this statement without looking like the > >>> fool you are. > >>> -- > >>> Steve O > >> Jeremiah chapter 1. > >> Robert B. Winn > > > That's Jeremiah the Bullfrog > > Heh heh, good buddy of mine, knows his wine.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Did you know that when Hoyt Axton first wrote that song the words were, Jeremiah was a prophet, he was a good friend of mine, etc. Then when the atheistic rock band, Three Dog Night got the song, the changed Jeremiah from a prophet to a bullfrog to make the song more popular with the atheistic youth. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 1 Jul 2008 15:04 On Jul 1, 1:03 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 30, 12:45 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 29, 2:11 pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 27, 6:54�pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > >>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>news:93faee1e-7aa9-4f18-b761-3a585ebcbaf0(a)v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>> On Jun 26, 5:05 am, RobertL <robertml...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jun 26, 4:48 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Jun 25, 7:27?pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> Actually, you ought to consider the consequences of a proof by God > >>>>>>>>>> that he does not exist. > >>>>>>>>> If that were to happen, people would have no choice except to believe > >>>>>>>>> in God. > >>>>>>>>> Why should anyone believe in a proven non-existent god? > >>>>>>>> Proven by whom? > >>>>>> By god himself! > >>>>>>> A proof is a proof; it doesn't matter who proved it. > >>>>>>> Robert > >>>>>> Well, if there was no one who proved it, and nothing was proven, then > >>>>>> it did not happen. > >>>>>> ----------------------------------- > >>>>>> Just like your bible stories. > >>>>> Well, I believed in the story of Hezekiah's tunnel being dug, and sure > >>>>> enough, there is a tunnel there today, just as the Bible says there > >>>>> is.  How do you explain it? > >>>> ER..there was a tunnel? > >>>> So what? > >>>>> Robert B. Winn- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Well, if there was an atheist anywhere who would admit that the verses > >>> of the Bible which describe the construction of the tunnel were true, > >>> then we could discuss other verses.  As long as atheists claim that > >>> Hezekiah's tunnel is a myth, then we will just discuss Hezekiah's > >>> tunnel. > >> We'll admit that when you admit that there's a magic platform at Kings > >> Cross station as described in Harry Potter. > > >> The Bible writers could've been writing fiction about a real place. Why > >> do you discount this interpretation of the evidence?- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Well, war correspondents could have been writing fiction about a real > > place when they wrote about the Normandy invasion on D-Day.  Once all > > the soldiers are dead who made the beachhead, who is to say otherwise? > > No-one is trying to assert that Hitler is a god. > > Anyway, that's why it's important to look at independent lines of > evidence to establish what really happened. There are many contemporary >  accounts of the events of D-Day, by correlating and testing them, we > can be confident in our history. > > What independent lines of evidence support the Bible? Your tunnel > doesn't help any more than London's existence supports Harry Potter > (which we all know is fiction).- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, Sennacherib, the Assyrian king had a column erected in Ninevah after his return which gave an account of the Judean invasion. He did not mention the death of his army, but said that he held Hezekiah prisoner in his own city for three years. Now my question to you and other believers of the account of the Assyrian king is if he held Hezekiah prisoner in Jerusalem for three years, why didn't he make it four and get over the city wall the way his army did at Lachish? The jews had no way of stopping him from doing that. All he had to do was put in the time and work, which the Assyrians had always been willing to do before they came to Jerusalem. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 1 Jul 2008 15:06
On Jul 1, 1:04 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jun 30, 12:55 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jun 29, 1:56�pm, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> Well, they do now that I have brought up the subject of Hezekiah's > >>>>> tunnel and the earthen ramp, which can both be seen today. �Before > >>>>> that, they were saying there was nothing in the Bible that was not > >>>>> mythology and nothing in the Bible that could be proven. �Atheists say > >>>>> whatever they think will fly. �It just so happened that I knew about > >>>>> Hezekiah's tunnel, so what they usually say was not sufficient for > >>>>> this conversation. �So now they are saying that the Bible has some > >>>>> history in it, but they are not happy about having to say that. �They > >>>>> would rather be saying what they said when this conversation started, > >>>>> that the Bible is nothing but mythology. > >>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>> If you are as wrong about what is in the bible as you are about what > >>>> people you have never apparently et think about it..God help you. ;-) > >>> I have read the Bible a couple of times.  What other people think > >>> about it is up to them.  Where they make their mistake is when they > >>> think they are going to tell me what I think about it. > >> Another baseless accusation. You're the one with the strawman opinion of > >> atheists. You're totally free to believe whatever magical nonsense you > >> want, just don't expect anyone to accept it without rational basis. Your > >> thoughts, such as they are, are totally your own. > > >> See how nice and tollerant us atheists are? :-)- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > No.  All you are doing is mimicking me.  If I had not said you were > > free to believe what you want, you never would have said it. > > Utter nonsense. Don't presume to tell me what I think, it's very rude. > > I believe very strongly in freedom of religion, including (as it must) > freedom FROM religion. Your lies about me won't change that.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - So why are atheists in sci.physics trying to convert Christians to atheism? Robert B. Winn |