Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 6 Jul 2008 10:00 On Jul 6, 12:50�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > Smiler wrote: > > "BuddyThunder" <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in message > >news:486fe914$1(a)clear.net.nz... > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 4, 5:19?pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >>>>news:211e4c29-e783-4569-b7f9-b5847f257287(a)l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > >>>> On Jul 3, 5:07?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > >>>>> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:33:39 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>> wrote > >>>>> in alt.atheism: > >>>>>> On Jul 2, 3:59?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 00:13:46 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism > >>>>>>> "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote in > >>>>>>> <871cf3fc-2cb9-42aa-99d8-bc4efed0a...(a)s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>: > >>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 3:34 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 6:43 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > >>>>>>>>> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 11:27 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 1:14 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 12:34 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 30, 12:25 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 6:06?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mythology and try ?to impose > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe whatever you want to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the myth to formulate > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inform foreign policy. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul said they would be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> story about animals > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humans. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprised. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> denial of the fact > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never have believed in evolution. ?I think it is a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fable, just as > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul said it was. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul knew nothing about it. You mock the Bible with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such silly > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interpretations of it.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just believe what Paul said. ?You seem a little upset > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I do not > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe your fable. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you please identify what he said about it? Please?- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 Tim 4:3 ?For the time will come when they will not > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> endure sound > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teachers, having itching ears; > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 ? And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and shall be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned unto fables. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't see any mention of evolution. I can't even see any > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> description > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the theory, or even a theistic strawman description. Can > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you help me > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> out? You made a claim that seems difficult to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> substantiate.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I think we are getting into subject matter that is too > >>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult > >>>>>>>>>>>>> for you. ?Maybe we should go back to Hezekiah's tunnel. > >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not struggling, maybe you could point out the verse where > >>>>>>>>>>>> evolution > >>>>>>>>>>>> is singled out. Maybe he's talking about the germ theory of > >>>>>>>>>>>> disease. I'm > >>>>>>>>>>>> sure you believe that demons are behind illness, rather than > >>>>>>>>>>>> pathogens.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>> Well, Paul said that in the last days, men would be turned to > >>>>>>>>>>> fables > >>>>>>>>>>> to explain things. ?So today we see science explaining most > >>>>>>>>>>> things by > >>>>>>>>>>> fables. > >>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>> Please explain how "evolution" counts as a fable? ?And we'll show > >>>>>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>>>> how you understanding of evolution is horribly wrong. > >>>>>>>>>> Al- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> Well, as Paul pointed out, in the last days men would be unable to > >>>>>>>>> endure sound doctrine and would devise a fable to try to explain > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> existence of mankind without a God. > >>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>> That doesn't relate evolution to a fable. > >>>>>>>> Do you ever answer a question that isn't just from your own > >>>>>>>> imagination? > >>>>>>>> Al > >>>>>>> I do think that Paul was being pretty slick when he predicted that > >>>>>>> someone would call him on his BS, but that his followers should > >>>>>>> ignore > >>>>>>> that he had nothing at all to back up his claims.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>> Well, probably the best one to explain your idea to would be Jesus > >>>>>> Christ. > >>>>> As you know, there is no evidence that He exists now and very little > >>>>> that supports the claim that He once existed.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>> Well, his sheep know his voice. ?Atheists do not. > >>>> ---------------------------------- > > >>>> Jesus loves ewe! > > >>>> Smiler, > >>>> The godless one > >>>> a.a.# 2279- Hide quoted text - > > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> I think it is wonderful that you have found something to amuse > >>> yourself. > >> It must be sad to not have a sense of humour, as you claimed to never > >> joke. Life is funny, crack a smile! > > > Have you ever found a fundy with a SOH? > > They're as rare as hen's teeth. > > Seems like the religion virus destroys their SOH at the same time it > > destroys their intelligence. > > I have, but what passes for humour in fundy circles is about as funny as > Dharma and Greg. Which they would probably object to on religious > grounds anyway.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, when I was in the V.A. hospital, there was a story about it. Mental patients would just say a number and everyone would laugh. So a new patient asked what was going on. Well, it was explained, there were only so many jokes, so instead of telling them every time, mental patients had numbered them, and when someone wanted to tell a joke, he would just say the number, and everyone would laugh. That seemed like a good idea to the new patient. So a few days later they were having dinner, and he thought of a particularly funny joke, so he shouted out the number. Dead silence. So he got all embarrassed and when he got back to his room, he asked his roommate what he had done wrong. Well, said his roommate, There are just some people who do not know how to tell a joke. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 6 Jul 2008 10:04 On Jul 6, 12:57 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 5, 2:40 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 4, 8:37�pm, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: > >>>> On Jul 4, 11:32 pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:26:53 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > >>>>> in alt.atheism: > >>>>>> On Jul 4, 2:57 am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > >>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>> On Jul 3, 4:15?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 03:44:40 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > >>>>>>>>> in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 5:28?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> ... > >>>>>>>>>>> Your claim is completely without support. Since you rely on an > >>>>>>>>>>> indefensible claim for the rest of your doctrine, your doctrines are not > >>>>>>>>>>> worth considering. > >>>>>>>>>> Well, I consider God to be sufficient support. ?If you think He is > >>>>>>>>>> not, ?go ahead and try to prove it. > >>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>> Please provide any evidence that any claim ever made about God is true. > >>>>>>>> Well, there is an earthen ramp that the Assyrian army built to get > >>>>>>>> over the city wall at Lachish. > >>>>>>> So? I have built several earthen ramps. > >>>>>>> Am I then God? > >>>>>>>> Atheists do not believe in the earthen ramp. > >>>>>>> well firstly that is false, because I do believe in earthen ramps, > >>>>>>> having built many, and I am an atheist. > >>>>>>> And secondly what has the fact that �person B may or may not believe > >>>>>>> statement X, have to do with the existence, or not, of personality Z? > >>>>>> God did not build the earthen ramp. �The Assyrian army did.. �God would > >>>>>> have preferred that they did not build it and had left the city of > >>>>>> Lachish and its inhabitants alone. > >>>>> Are you saying that God was powerless to stop them? > >>>> The bible contains enormous mistakes to glorify god yet plainly > >>>> telling us that god is a useless being. > >>>> The early Jews who wrote it were not educated, or might be drunk. Yes, > >>>> more drunk than wake.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Well, as you say, if you think God is a useless being, then you will > >>> choose to be with the beings you think of as being useful, other > >>> atheists. > >> So you concede there are many mistakes or untruths in the Bible then?- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Why does it depend on me?  The Bible is what it is.  If you do not > > like the Bible, read something else. > > No answer? I just wanted to know how reliable you thought the Bible was. > I know it to be full of errors and distortions, just wondered what your > position on it was. You seem to think it better than other sacred texts > for some reason.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I think the Bible is very reliable. The Jews were very meticulous as far as preserving ancient writings. For instance, the Dead Sea scrolls of Isaiah are a good example of how accurately the Bible was translated. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 6 Jul 2008 10:11 On Jul 6, 1:00 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 5, 3:53�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >>news:62956527-c824-415d-93ab-cdbf47127a02(a)k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com.... > >> On Jul 4, 9:37 am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > > >>> For the umpteenth time, we cannot tell Jesus anything. > >>> If he existed at all, he died nearly 2,000 years ago. > >>> Apart from an alleged brief visit shortly afterward, he hasn't been seen > >>> since. > >>> How can we tell him anything, huh? > >>> - Show quoted text - > >> Well, it is called prayer. �Christians are commanded to pray. > > >> ==================== > > >> And you're sure your prayer gets through ... even though no-one in the > >> history of Christian prayer has ever answered. �You know, if I dial a number > >> and get no connection, I may try a few more times, but sooner or later I > >> realise that there's no phone at the other end .... > > > Well, mine get answered.  What made you think they were not? > > Shall we do some double-blind tests? Would you like to submit that claim > to scrutiny? It would really help me believe, because theists are always > talking about answered prayer, and mine were met with nothing but stony > silence.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed, 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 6 Jul 2008 10:12 On Jul 6, 1:01�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > Smiler wrote: > > "Free Lunch" <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote in message > >news:i2nt649tvtdd1sofkag02co4c9n4s1vt6e(a)4ax.com... > >> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 19:26:01 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > >> in alt.atheism: > > >>> On Jul 4, 8:42?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:28:00 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > >>>> in alt.atheism: > > >>>>> On Jul 4, 3:03?am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > >>>>>> Alex W. wrote: > >>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>news:9fadb87c-6364-49eb-9ca6-c8fd555f6cd3(a)a70g2000hsh.googlegroups..com... > >>>>>>> On Jul 3, 6:05?am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>news:f807e4d0-b40f-4cb8-bb4c-12f00021898d(a)34g2000hsh.googlegroups..com... > >>>>>>>> Well, the scriptures say that the wicked would be more miserable > >>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>> the presence of God than with the devils in hell. > >>>>>>>> =========== > >>>>>>>> In other words, since we are all sinful by definition, the smart > >>>>>>>> choice is > >>>>>>>> to aim for hell in the first place. ?Nice morality .... > >>>>>>> No, the smart choice is to repent of sins. ?However, atheists claim > >>>>>>> that nothing they do is sin, so they are not going to repent. > >>>>>> Which to me indicates you have no idea what sin, or repentance, is.. > >>>>>>> ========== > >>>>>>> Sin is a social construct. ?It exists irrespective of the god(s) > >>>>>>> worshipped > >>>>>>> ... or not, as the case may be.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> Sin is wilful disobedience of God. ?Repentance is confessing and > >>>>> forsaking sin. > >>>> As far as we can tell, God is a human invention. God never told us to do > >>>> anything. Sin, therefore, is also a human invention.- Hide quoted text - > > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> So once an atheist enters into sin, there is no turning back from > >>> it. � I guess that was why Josef Stalin killed 12 million people. > >> God is still a human invention. Clearly the fear of God does not stop > >> you from lying in almost every post. > > >> I will not respond to you for a while, you have become far too nasty in > >> your discussions here. > > > That's exactly what he wants! > > If everyone ignored him, he would be free to spread his lies without > > opposition. > > The answer is to fight his lies, nastyness and stupidity with the reply it > > deserves...Ho! <whack>. > > If there's something worth a response, I will respond. If it's nothing > but silly lies, unevidenced assertions or "atheists are Nazis" nonsense, > then the whacking will come.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I believe that atheists are exactly like Nazis. That has been my experience with them. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 6 Jul 2008 10:26
On Jul 6, 2:46 am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > news:e765a085-e079-4808-aa79-7244fc499d79(a)25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > On Jul 5, 3:53�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >>news:62956527-c824-415d-93ab-cdbf47127a02(a)k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com.... > >> On Jul 4, 9:37 am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > > >> > For the umpteenth time, we cannot tell Jesus anything. > >> > If he existed at all, he died nearly 2,000 years ago. > >> > Apart from an alleged brief visit shortly afterward, he hasn't been > >> > seen > >> > since. > >> > How can we tell him anything, huh? > > >> > - Show quoted text - > > >> Well, it is called prayer. �Christians are commanded to pray. > > >> ==================== > > >> And you're sure your prayer gets through ... even though no-one in the > >> history of Christian prayer has ever answered. �You know, if I dial a > >> number > >> and get no connection, I may try a few more times, but sooner or later I > >> realise that there's no phone at the other end .... > > > Well, mine get answered.  What made you think they were not? > > Robert B. Winn > > You're confusion in just about everything leads us to that conclusion. > Ever had a prayer that hasn't been answered?? > No wait, I get it, you'll probably tell me it has always been answered, but > not in the way you wanted. > We hear that all of the time. > Classic example of self-deception. > > -- > Steve O Some people just cannot take no for an answer. Well, we know atheists have an agenda. What I cannot personally understand is how atheists expect to be able to run their agenda on God. It is just not going to work. Robert B. Winn |