Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: rbwinn on 6 Jul 2008 17:44 On Jul 6, 11:07 am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 6, 1:01�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> Smiler wrote: > >>> "Free Lunch" <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote in message > >>>news:i2nt649tvtdd1sofkag02co4c9n4s1vt6e(a)4ax.com... > >>>> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 19:26:01 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > >>>> in alt.atheism: > >>>>> On Jul 4, 8:42?am, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:28:00 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote > >>>>>> in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>> On Jul 4, 3:03?am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > >>>>>>>> Alex W. wrote: > >>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>>news:9fadb87c-6364-49eb-9ca6-c8fd555f6cd3(a)a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>>>> On Jul 3, 6:05?am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>>>>>news:f807e4d0-b40f-4cb8-bb4c-12f00021898d(a)34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>>>>> Well, the scriptures say that the wicked would be more miserable > >>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>> the presence of God than with the devils in hell. > >>>>>>>>>> =========== > >>>>>>>>>> In other words, since we are all sinful by definition, the smart > >>>>>>>>>> choice is > >>>>>>>>>> to aim for hell in the first place. ?Nice morality .... > >>>>>>>>> No, the smart choice is to repent of sins. ?However, atheists claim > >>>>>>>>> that nothing they do is sin, so they are not going to repent. > >>>>>>>> Which to me indicates you have no idea what sin, or repentance, is. > >>>>>>>>> ========== > >>>>>>>>> Sin is a social construct. ?It exists irrespective of the god(s) > >>>>>>>>> worshipped > >>>>>>>>> ... or not, as the case may be.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> Sin is wilful disobedience of God. ?Repentance is confessing and > >>>>>>> forsaking sin. > >>>>>> As far as we can tell, God is a human invention. God never told us to do > >>>>>> anything. Sin, therefore, is also a human invention.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> So once an atheist enters into sin, there is no turning back from > >>>>> it. � I guess that was why Josef Stalin killed 12 million people. > >>>> God is still a human invention. Clearly the fear of God does not stop > >>>> you from lying in almost every post. > >>>> I will not respond to you for a while, you have become far too nasty in > >>>> your discussions here. > >>> That's exactly what he wants! > >>> If everyone ignored him, he would be free to spread his lies without > >>> opposition. > >>> The answer is to fight his lies, nastyness and stupidity with the reply it > >>> deserves...Ho! <whack>. > >> If there's something worth a response, I will respond. If it's nothing > >> but silly lies, unevidenced assertions or "atheists are Nazis" nonsense, > >> then the whacking will come.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > I believe that atheists are exactly like Nazis.  That has been my > > experience with them. > > Robert B. Winn > > I believe fundamental christians are just like Nazis. > > they both know they are justified in anything, because they are > completely right (wing?) > .- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Not me. I am registered as an independent voter. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 6 Jul 2008 17:46 On Jul 6, 11:11 am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 6, 2:46 am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > >>news:e765a085-e079-4808-aa79-7244fc499d79(a)25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com.... > > >>> On Jul 5, 3:53�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>news:62956527-c824-415d-93ab-cdbf47127a02(a)k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > >>>> On Jul 4, 9:37 am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > >>>>> For the umpteenth time, we cannot tell Jesus anything. > >>>>> If he existed at all, he died nearly 2,000 years ago. > >>>>> Apart from an alleged brief visit shortly afterward, he hasn't been > >>>>> seen > >>>>> since. > >>>>> How can we tell him anything, huh? > >>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>> Well, it is called prayer. �Christians are commanded to pray.. > >>>> ==================== > >>>> And you're sure your prayer gets through ... even though no-one in the > >>>> history of Christian prayer has ever answered. �You know, if I dial a > >>>> number > >>>> and get no connection, I may try a few more times, but sooner or later I > >>>> realise that there's no phone at the other end .... > >>> Well, mine get answered.  What made you think they were not? > >>> Robert B. Winn > >> You're confusion in just about everything leads us to that conclusion. > >> Ever had a prayer that hasn't been answered?? > >> No wait, I get it, you'll probably tell me it has always been answered, but > >> not in the way you wanted. > >> We hear that all of the time. > >> Classic example of self-deception. > > >> -- > >> Steve O > > > Some people just cannot take no for an answer.  Well, we know atheists > > have an agenda.  > > we don't. > > What I cannot personally understand is how atheists > > > expect to be able to run their agenda on God.  It is just not going to > > work. > > The exact meaning of atheism is 'without reference to (a) god'. > > Christians think that atheists don't believe in God. That's not true. > Atheists simply don't use belief at all. God is ignored as being too > loose a concept to be of practical value. > > Atheists do not give a toss about Christians or what they believe except > when they insist of injecting their nonsense into other peoples minds. > You mean like atheists do with the school system? Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 6 Jul 2008 17:55 On Jul 6, 12:17�pm, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: > "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > > news:30fafc0d-9c9c-43e9-90d9-b36a200c34e8(a)m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com... > > > > >> Right. So we are all going to hell willy nilly. Why bother with trying > >> not to?. > > > You will not like hell. �That is what seems odd about atheists. �They > > can seem like rational beings except in one instance. �If you were to > > give them a choice between going to Yellowstone national Park or going > > to the Winslow, Arizona, city dump, most of them would choose to go to > > Yellowstone Park. �But if you give them a choice between heaven and > > hell, they all say they do not want to go to heaven. �Some of them > > might object to going to hell, but they all choose to not go to > > heaven. > > Robert B. Winn > > You're wrong. > No matter how pleasant heaven or Yellowstone Park is, spending the rest of > ETERNITY in either place, or anywhere else for that matter, would be the > worst form of punishment and torture. > You guys always bang on about looking forward to eternity without actually > thinking about what that involves. > It's ETERNITY for Christ's sake! > Mind numbing, endless, inescapable eternity- without even having the relief > of suicide to end it all. > I couldn't think of any worse torture than spending the rest of eternity in > one single place. > > -- > Steve O Suicide does not solve anything. The person will still have all of the problems they had before with the added problem that they have committed suicide. So following what you say, what if people in heaven get to move around, and people in hell cannot. Which place do you want to go? Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 6 Jul 2008 17:57 On Jul 6, 1:53 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 6, 12:44 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> rbwinn wrote: > >>> On Jul 5, 2:31 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jul 5, 2:42 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>> On Jul 4, 3:22 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Jul 3, 11:28 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 3, 1:55 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 8:35 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 2:03 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 11:59 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 1:04 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 12:20 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 30, 1:19�pm, Enkidu <fox_rgf...(a)trashmail.net> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in news:22183802-cf28-4305-af11- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7d254b106...(a)d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are the one being deliberately obtuse. � The existence of the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnel validates many other things said in the Bible about the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Assyrian invasion of Judea. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "The Hobbit" talks of ale, axes, and forests which we know exist. Does that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> validate Orcs, Elves, Dwarves, trolls, magic rings, walking trees and Tom > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bombadil? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Enkidu AA#2165 � > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EAC Chaplain and ordained minister, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ULC, Modesto, CA > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doesn't anything socialistic make you want to throw up? Like great public > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schools, or health insurance for all? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> � � �-Kurt Vonnegut > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you decide for yourself?  You were the one who thought of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't you try to defend your assertions? How can we know we can > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trust what you say?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It does not matter to me what you trust.  You decide what you are > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going to trust. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can't provide any sensible reason to believe your fanciful > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claims, then I guess we're done.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fanciful claims?  I said that the Jews dug a tunnel as a conduit for > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> water between Gihon spring and the pool of Siloam.  Why do you think > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that is a fanciful claim? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is not a fanciful claim. You and I both know that I'm referring to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your supernatural claims. Those would be the ones you're completely > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unable to support with any evidence.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have not made any claims to atheists except that the Jews dug a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tunnel to be used as a conduit for water, and the Assyrians built a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ramp out of dirt to get over the city wall at Lachish.  To an atheist > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these might seem like supernatural claims because there were actually > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people working to accomplish both of these tasks instead of just > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving orders, criticism, etc., the way atheists do.  Since atheists > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have been unable to visualize these two events, there is no reason to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proceed on to anything more complex. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then we're in total agreement. A tunnel was dug a long time ago and it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got mentioned in some ancient writings, providing absolutlely no support > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for any supernatural claims. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why all the posts?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You do not seem to be visualizing it very well.  The Assyrians came > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into Judea with an army of hundreds of thousands on their way home > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after taking a big chunk of Egypt.  Judea was a little dot in the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> middle of the Assyrian kingdom, which extended from the Caspian Sea to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Egypt.  So why was there still a Kingdom of Judea when King > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sennacherib got back to his capitol city of Ninevah?  Sennacherib > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> himself says there was on the column he had erected in Ninevah. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or so the story goes.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you mean so the story goes?  The column erected by Sennacherib > >>>>>>>>>>>>> in Ninevah is still there today.  He plainly says on it that Hezekiah > >>>>>>>>>>>>> paid tribute to him, and he was such a nice guy that he just went home > >>>>>>>>>>>>> after he got the money. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Great. Sennacherib went home and left Jerusalem unsacked. That doesn't > >>>>>>>>>>>> mean that it was due to the angel of the lord slaughtering 185,000 > >>>>>>>>>>>> troops in a night. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you favour the oddly magical Biblical account over Sennacherib's?- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>> 186,000 troops.  Chaldean historians of the same time said that the > >>>>>>>>>>> Assyrian army died of plague while besieging Jerusalem, and > >>>>>>>>>>> Sennacherib fled in great fear back to his own city of Ninevah. > >>>>>>>>>>> Sennacherib made no mention of losing his army on the column he > >>>>>>>>>>> erected.  He seems to have pretended to his fellow Assyrians that the > >>>>>>>>>>> army was still somewhere doing something, but his own two sons > >>>>>>>>>>> murdered him, probably because they were upset about him losing the > >>>>>>>>>>> army. > >>>>>>>>>> So where are God's footprints in all of this? Arguments for both sides > >>>>>>>>>> can be made without invoking magic.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> Well, from a military standpoint, the Jews had no chance whatsoever > >>>>>>>>> against the Assyrians.  But when it was all over, it was the Assyrian > >>>>>>>>> king who lost everything, including his own life.  So I would say, let > >>>>>>>>> atheists of today explain it their way, and let Christians explain it > >>>>>>>>> their way.  The Jews explained it by saying that an angel of the Lord > >>>>>>>>> killed 186,000 Assyrian troops.  That is a matter of record.  It is > >>>>>>>>> recorded in three different books of the Old Testament. > >>>>>>>> The Old Testament isn't particularly compelling evidence, it suggests > >>>>>>>> that there was a global flood and special creation over the course of > >>>>>>>> six days. It might be a "matter of record" on some things, but it is > >>>>>>>> definitely not on others.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>> Well, I am sure the Jews feel bad that you do not like the Old > >>>>>>> Testament, but it says what it says.  It says in three different > >>>>>>> books that an angel of the Lord went through the camp of the Assyrians > >>>>>>> and slew 186,000 soldiers. > >>>>>> It also says that the universe was created a handful of thousands of > >>>>>> years ago. The Bible is not reliable.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> Well, as I said before, you atheists believe in relativity of time > >>>>> unless you are talking about the earth.  Then you insist on absolute > >>>>> time. > >>>> Instead you make some ridiculous claims about the relativity of time > >>>> completely without evidential basis, or... any rational support at all. > >>>> The Earth is older than 6500 thousand years old. Much older. I'll go > >>>> with the many independent lines of verification on that one.- Hide quoted text - > >>>> - Show quoted text - > >>> Well, that is fine, but why is relativity of time something that > >>> exists except when talking about the earth? > >> Because Earth isn't travelling at near light speed. I'm no physicist but...- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > So what makes you believe that motion is the only factor that would > > affect time? > > Gee, I dunno. Until you back up your notions, it's hard to know what > you're on about. > > What makes you think that you know better than every mainstream > peer-reviewed physicist on the planet?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Every mainstream peer reviewed physicist on the planet uses the Lorentz equation. There is no way that the Lorentz equations could be more than a close approximation. Robert B. Winn
From: rbwinn on 6 Jul 2008 18:02
On Jul 6, 1:56 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > rbwinn wrote: > > On Jul 6, 12:50�am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >> Smiler wrote: > >>> "BuddyThunder" <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote in message > >>>news:486fe914$1(a)clear.net.nz... > >>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>> On Jul 4, 5:19?pm, "Smiler" <Smi...(a)Joe.King.com> wrote: > >>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message > >>>>>>news:211e4c29-e783-4569-b7f9-b5847f257287(a)l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com... > >>>>>> On Jul 3, 5:07?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:33:39 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>> wrote > >>>>>>> in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 3:59?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 00:13:46 -0700 (PDT), in alt.atheism > >>>>>>>>> "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote in > >>>>>>>>> <871cf3fc-2cb9-42aa-99d8-bc4efed0a...(a)s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>: > >>>>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 3:34 pm, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 6:43 pm, "Dogmantic Pyrrhonist (AKA Al)" > >>>>>>>>>>> <alwh...(a)optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 11:27 am, rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 1:14 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 1, 12:34 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 30, 12:25 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 6:06?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:50?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 7:17?am, Free Lunch > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:05:42 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rbwi...(a)juno.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote in alt.atheism: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 12:26?am, BuddyThunder > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 27, 6:42?pm, BuddyThunder > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jack wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am upset by *people* who > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that the Bible is anything more than > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mythology and try ?to impose > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beliefs on me ?using the Bible as evidence.. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can someone impose a belief on you? ?Just > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe whatever you want to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The wrong part is when people attempt to use > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the myth to formulate > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public policy or indoctrinate children or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inform foreign policy. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, actually they use fables. ?The apostles > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul said they would be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned to fables in the last days. ?A fable is a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> story about animals > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like the story about monkeys turning into > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humans. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, you're ignorant about evolution. Colour me > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surprised. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In what way am I ignorant about evolution? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Monkeys and humans do share a common ancestor. Your > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> denial of the fact > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not change that fact.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Charles Darwin was not my ancestor. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Evolution happens. Learn to deal with reality.- Hide > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never have believed in evolution. ?I think it is a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fable, just as > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul said it was. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul knew nothing about it. You mock the Bible with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such silly > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interpretations of it.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just believe what Paul said. ?You seem a little upset > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I do not > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe your fable. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you please identify what he said about it? Please?- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 Tim 4:3 ?For the time will come when they will not > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> endure sound > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teachers, having itching ears; > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 ? And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and shall be > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned unto fables. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't see any mention of evolution. I can't even see any > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> description > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the theory, or even a theistic strawman description. Can > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you help me > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out? You made a claim that seems difficult to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> substantiate.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I think we are getting into subject matter that is too > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you. ?Maybe we should go back to Hezekiah's tunnel. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not struggling, maybe you could point out the verse where > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> evolution > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is singled out. Maybe he's talking about the germ theory of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> disease. I'm > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure you believe that demons are behind illness, rather than > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pathogens.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, Paul said that in the last days, men would be turned to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> fables > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to explain things. ?So today we see science explaining most > >>>>>>>>>>>>> things by > >>>>>>>>>>>>> fables. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>>>> Please explain how "evolution" counts as a fable? ?And we'll show > >>>>>>>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>>>>>> how you understanding of evolution is horribly wrong. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Al- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>>>>> Well, as Paul pointed out, in the last days men would be unable to > >>>>>>>>>>> endure sound doctrine and would devise a fable to try to explain > >>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> existence of mankind without a God. > >>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn > >>>>>>>>>> That doesn't relate evolution to a fable. > >>>>>>>>>> Do you ever answer a question that isn't just from your own > >>>>>>>>>> imagination? > >>>>>>>>>> Al > >>>>>>>>> I do think that Paul was being pretty slick when he predicted that > >>>>>>>>> someone would call him on his BS, but that his followers should > >>>>>>>>> ignore > >>>>>>>>> that he had nothing at all to back up his claims.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>>>> Well, probably the best one to explain your idea to would be Jesus > >>>>>>>> Christ. > >>>>>>> As you know, there is no evidence that He exists now and very little > >>>>>>> that supports the claim that He once existed.- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>>> Well, his sheep know his voice. ?Atheists do not. > >>>>>> ---------------------------------- > >>>>>> Jesus loves ewe! > >>>>>> Smiler, > >>>>>> The godless one > >>>>>> a.a.# 2279- Hide quoted text - > >>>>>> - Show quoted text - > >>>>> I think it is wonderful that you have found something to amuse > >>>>> yourself. > >>>> It must be sad to not have a sense of humour, as you claimed to never > >>>> joke. Life is funny, crack a smile! > >>> Have you ever found a fundy with a SOH? > >>> They're as rare as hen's teeth. > >>> Seems like the religion virus destroys their SOH at the same time it > >>> destroys their intelligence. > >> I have, but what passes for humour in fundy circles is about as funny as > >> Dharma and Greg. Which they would probably object to on religious > >> grounds anyway.- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text - > > > Well, when I was in the V.A. hospital, there was a story about it. > > Mental patients would just say a number and everyone would laugh.  So > > a new patient asked what was going on.  Well, it was explained, there > > were only so many jokes, so instead of telling them every time, mental > > patients had numbered them, and when someone wanted to tell a joke, he > > would just say the number, and everyone would laugh.  That seemed like > > a good idea to the new patient.  So a few days later they were having > > dinner, and he thought of a particularly funny joke, so he shouted out > > the number. > > Dead silence. > > So he got all embarrassed and when he got back to his room, he asked > > his roommate what he had done wrong. > > Well, said his roommate, There are just some people who do not know > > how to tell a joke. > > Heh.. That's quite funny. Credit where it's due.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Well, the guy who thought of that one is probably still locked up. Robert B. Winn |