Does God need to prove He exists?
in [Physics]
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From: BuddyThunder on 6 Jul 2008 19:51 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 6, 1:59 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 6, 12:57 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jul 5, 2:40 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Jul 4, 8:37�pm, hhyaps...(a)gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>> On Jul 4, 11:32 pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 08:26:53 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote >>>>>>>>> in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>> On Jul 4, 2:57 am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 3, 4:15?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 03:44:40 -0700 (PDT), rbwinn <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote >>>>>>>>>>>>> in alt.atheism: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 5:28?pm, Free Lunch <lu...(a)nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your claim is completely without support. Since you rely on an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indefensible claim for the rest of your doctrine, your doctrines are not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worth considering. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I consider God to be sufficient support. ?If you think He is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not, ?go ahead and try to prove it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>>>>>>>>>>> Please provide any evidence that any claim ever made about God is true. >>>>>>>>>>>> Well, there is an earthen ramp that the Assyrian army built to get >>>>>>>>>>>> over the city wall at Lachish. >>>>>>>>>>> So? I have built several earthen ramps. >>>>>>>>>>> Am I then God? >>>>>>>>>>>> Atheists do not believe in the earthen ramp. >>>>>>>>>>> well firstly that is false, because I do believe in earthen ramps, >>>>>>>>>>> having built many, and I am an atheist. >>>>>>>>>>> And secondly what has the fact that �person B may or may not believe >>>>>>>>>>> statement X, have to do with the existence, or not, of personality Z? >>>>>>>>>> God did not build the earthen ramp. �The Assyrian army did. �God would >>>>>>>>>> have preferred that they did not build it and had left the city of >>>>>>>>>> Lachish and its inhabitants alone. >>>>>>>>> Are you saying that God was powerless to stop them? >>>>>>>> The bible contains enormous mistakes to glorify god yet plainly >>>>>>>> telling us that god is a useless being. >>>>>>>> The early Jews who wrote it were not educated, or might be drunk. Yes, >>>>>>>> more drunk than wake.- Hide quoted text - >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>>> Well, as you say, if you think God is a useless being, then you will >>>>>>> choose to be with the beings you think of as being useful, other >>>>>>> atheists. >>>>>> So you concede there are many mistakes or untruths in the Bible then?- Hide quoted text - >>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>> Why does it depend on me? The Bible is what it is. If you do not >>>>> like the Bible, read something else. >>>> No answer? I just wanted to know how reliable you thought the Bible was. >>>> I know it to be full of errors and distortions, just wondered what your >>>> position on it was. You seem to think it better than other sacred texts >>>> for some reason.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> I think the Bible is very reliable. The Jews were very meticulous as >>> far as preserving ancient writings. For instance, the Dead Sea >>> scrolls of Isaiah are a good example of how accurately the Bible was >>> translated. >> The Bible was very accurately transcribed - for humans. They did an >> amazing job. Not a perfect job, there are lots of differences between >> the early versions we have, but not bad for a bunch of people. >> >> It's the content that I find even less reliable though, that's what I >> was driving at, and I think you know that. >> >> Much reported as history in the Bible simply never happened. No global >> flood, no special creation, no exodus...- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Well, I think those happened. I don't think the Song of Solomon is an > inspired writing. Okay cool, I know where you're at. Thanks for the answer.
From: Antares 531 on 6 Jul 2008 19:59 On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 08:59:50 +1200, BuddyThunder <nospam(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >rbwinn wrote: >> On Jul 6, 12:57 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>> rbwinn wrote: (snip) > >The Bible was very accurately transcribed - for humans. They did an >amazing job. Not a perfect job, there are lots of differences between >the early versions we have, but not bad for a bunch of people. > >It's the content that I find even less reliable though, that's what I >was driving at, and I think you know that. > >Much reported as history in the Bible simply never happened. No global >flood, no special creation, no exodus... > Few of those Biblical stories are to be taken literally. Most are allegory, parable, simile, etc., sometimes based upon an existing legend. The purpose was to make it possible for a mostly illiterate people to get the embedded meaning, retain the story, and pass it on from generation to generation with little drift. The flood was probably based upon the ancient stories about the flooding of the Mediterranean basin shortly after the last ice age ended. The Strait of Gibraltar was breached as the Atlantic ocean level raised. When this happened the whole Mediterranean basin was flooded in a very short time...like 40 days and 40 nights. The relics of those stone walls and buildings that were out in what is now the Mediterranean are still available for divers to see. The main point I'm making is that we should not get hung up on the literary form used in the Bible. We can read it and interpret it just as effectively as those ancient people could. Neither of us has an advantage over the other. Gordon
From: BuddyThunder on 6 Jul 2008 20:02 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 6, 11:04�am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: >> Alex W. wrote: >>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>> news:b9d055c5-7a5b-4534-9703-63f1e75e9648(a)56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com... >>> Your spirit is made of spirit. �You cannot transplant it. >>> ======= >>> There is always possession .... >> And actually the one thing we do know about spirit, is that is i NOT >> limited to an earthly body, so it can move independently of it if it wants. >> >> So yet one more lie from robbo. > > The spirit of a human being wants to stay in the body because that is > the best place for it until the person dies. Where in the body is it housed?
From: BuddyThunder on 6 Jul 2008 20:03 rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 6, 2:16 pm, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 6, 1:00 am, BuddyThunder <nos...(a)paradise.net.nz> wrote: >>>> rbwinn wrote: >>>>> On Jul 5, 3:53�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:62956527-c824-415d-93ab-cdbf47127a02(a)k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> On Jul 4, 9:37 am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>>>>> For the umpteenth time, we cannot tell Jesus anything. >>>>>>> If he existed at all, he died nearly 2,000 years ago. >>>>>>> Apart from an alleged brief visit shortly afterward, he hasn't been seen >>>>>>> since. >>>>>>> How can we tell him anything, huh? >>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>> Well, it is called prayer. �Christians are commanded to pray. >>>>>> ==================== >>>>>> And you're sure your prayer gets through ... even though no-one in the >>>>>> history of Christian prayer has ever answered. �You know, if I dial a number >>>>>> and get no connection, I may try a few more times, but sooner or later I >>>>>> realise that there's no phone at the other end .... >>>>> Well, mine get answered. What made you think they were not? >>>> Shall we do some double-blind tests? Would you like to submit that claim >>>> to scrutiny? It would really help me believe, because theists are always >>>> talking about answered prayer, and mine were met with nothing but stony >>>> silence.- Hide quoted text - >>>> - Show quoted text - >>> James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth >>> to all men liberally, and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him. >>> 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth >>> is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed, >>> 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the >>> Lord. >> I wouldn't expect God to start taking *my* calls now after having >> ignored them entirely for five years, but *you* still have faith. We >> could test the efficacy of *your* prayers. >> >> Feel up to it? :-)- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Why do you want to test my prayers? So you'd be able to back up your claim that prayer (yours, mine, anyone's) is actually answered.
From: BuddyThunder on 6 Jul 2008 20:04
rbwinn wrote: > On Jul 6, 11:11 am, The Natural Philosopher <a...(a)b.c> wrote: >> rbwinn wrote: >>> On Jul 6, 2:46 am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>> news:e765a085-e079-4808-aa79-7244fc499d79(a)25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com... >>>>> On Jul 5, 3:53�am, "Alex W." <ing...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >>>>>> "rbwinn" <rbwi...(a)juno.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:62956527-c824-415d-93ab-cdbf47127a02(a)k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> On Jul 4, 9:37 am, "Steve O" <nospamh...(a)thanks.com> wrote: >>>>>>> For the umpteenth time, we cannot tell Jesus anything. >>>>>>> If he existed at all, he died nearly 2,000 years ago. >>>>>>> Apart from an alleged brief visit shortly afterward, he hasn't been >>>>>>> seen >>>>>>> since. >>>>>>> How can we tell him anything, huh? >>>>>>> - Show quoted text - >>>>>> Well, it is called prayer. �Christians are commanded to pray. >>>>>> ==================== >>>>>> And you're sure your prayer gets through ... even though no-one in the >>>>>> history of Christian prayer has ever answered. �You know, if I dial a >>>>>> number >>>>>> and get no connection, I may try a few more times, but sooner or later I >>>>>> realise that there's no phone at the other end .... >>>>> Well, mine get answered. What made you think they were not? >>>>> Robert B. Winn >>>> You're confusion in just about everything leads us to that conclusion. >>>> Ever had a prayer that hasn't been answered?? >>>> No wait, I get it, you'll probably tell me it has always been answered, but >>>> not in the way you wanted. >>>> We hear that all of the time. >>>> Classic example of self-deception. >>>> -- >>>> Steve O >>> Some people just cannot take no for an answer. Well, we know atheists >>> have an agenda. >> we don't. >> >> What I cannot personally understand is how atheists >> >>> expect to be able to run their agenda on God. It is just not going to >>> work. >> The exact meaning of atheism is 'without reference to (a) god'. >> >> Christians think that atheists don't believe in God. That's not true. >> Atheists simply don't use belief at all. God is ignored as being too >> loose a concept to be of practical value. >> >> Atheists do not give a toss about Christians or what they believe except >> when they insist of injecting their nonsense into other peoples minds. >> > You mean like atheists do with the school system? Why do you find education so objectionable? |