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From: nospam on 5 Aug 2010 01:27
In article <nkgk565d1p8mk0g2bdsajtg4gpb3ke4umn(a)4ax.com>, Jeff
Liebermann <jeffl(a)cruzio.com> wrote:

> >now try real world tests.
>
> Is there a problem with my testing methods or results? If so, how is
> it not a "real world" test? Have you tried your phone?

does it drop calls, and if so, how often? how well can it make and
receive calls compared to other phones?

*that* is what matters in a phone.

> >changewave found that the iphone 4 is dropping *fewer* calls than the
> >3gs, and roughly 80% of iphone 4 users don't find the antenna issue to
> >be much of a problem, but they do think at&t sucks, the #1 complaint.
>
> Did you actually read the original article on which that's based? It's
> a customer satisfaction survey, not a field test:

i didn't say it was a field test.

> <http://www.changewaveresearch.com/articles/2010/08/new_iphone4_owners_2010080
> 4.html>
>
> In a surprising finding, iPhone 4 owners reported a better dropped
> call rating (5.2%) than their 3GS counterparts (6.3%).
>
> In other words, despite the hoopla surrounding the antenna issue,
> in actuality iPhone 4 owners report experiencing slightly fewer
> dropped calls on the average than do iPhone 3GS owners.
>
> That's a fabulous 213 iPhone 4 owners surveyed. That's out of 3
> million sold in the first 3 weeks. Funny, but I don't see anything
> about 80% of the users not having a problem with the antenna.

To gauge the impact of the antenna obstruction issue, we asked iPhone
4 owners to tell us how big of a problem it was for them. Nearly
two-thirds reported they Haven�t Experienced Any Problem and another
14% reported it Wasn�t Much of a Problem.� However one-in-five did
report it was Somewhat of a Problem (14%) or a Very Big Problem (7%).

nearly 2/3 (65%) + 14% = 79%, which i rounded off to 80% as having
little to no problem. that leaves 14% for somewhat and 7% for very big.

> However,
> in the 3rd graph, you'll see that it's the #3 complaint, where 24% of
> the 213 users didn't like the antenna problems. Extrapolate that to 3
> million owners, and there should be 720,000 irate users rioting at
> Apple's doorstep.

yet the return rate is much lower than the 3gs. how do you explain that?

again, people *who actually own the phone* are generally satisfied with
it. not everyone, but then again, no product will satisfy everyone.

if it was a big deal, then the satisfaction rates would not be that
high and the return rate wouldn't be that low.

also note that at&t's call drop rate is on an upward trend and just
about *triple* that of verizon. at&t really does suck.
From: nospam on 5 Aug 2010 01:30
In article <znu-D88994.01023305082010(a)Port80.Individual.NET>, ZnU
<znu(a)fake.invalid> wrote:

> In the case of an iPad in direct sunlight, the thermal energy is
> primarily coming from an external source. Unless you think they should
> have pun a fan in the thing (which is ludicrous, IMO),

the wepad has a fan in it.

> it's really
> unclear exactly what they could have possibly done about this. I mean,
> other than making the device highly reflective. Which it is.
>
> In any event, there is no systematic testing showing an actual problem
> here in the first place.

nor were there massive ipad (or iphone) failures over the last month
when the temperature in the midwest/northeast usa was 90-100+.
From: Jeff Liebermann on 5 Aug 2010 01:37
On Thu, 05 Aug 2010 01:09:53 -0400, ZnU <znu(a)fake.invalid> wrote:

>In article <nkgk565d1p8mk0g2bdsajtg4gpb3ke4umn(a)4ax.com>,
> Jeff Liebermann <jeffl(a)cruzio.com> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> That's a fabulous 213 iPhone 4 owners surveyed. That's out of 3
>> million sold in the first 3 weeks. Funny, but I don't see anything
>> about 80% of the users not having a problem with the antenna. However,
>> in the 3rd graph, you'll see that it's the #3 complaint, where 24% of
>> the 213 users didn't like the antenna problems. Extrapolate that to 3
>> million owners, and there should be 720,000 irate users rioting at
>> Apple's doorstep.
>
>Yet there don't seem to be.
>
>You frankly can't trust people reporting that they're bothered by a
>problem the media has told them they're supposed to be bothered by.

Yep. That's very logical.

Once upon a time, I worked on a new computah accessory design. After
shipping 3000 pieces, to about 2000 customers, I decided to re-test
the included driver and diagnostic software. Nothing worked right.
Yet, not one of the 2000 customer complained until we asked them if
they had a specific problem with the software. They ran the floppy,
watched it crash, and never said anything.

Fast forward about 15 years to the iPhone 4. If customers had not
heard about the antenna problems in the press, they would probably
blame the dropped calls on the much maligned AT&T wireless network.

I'm sure every iPhone 4 owner has tried the death grip test. If they
were in a strong signal area, it wasn't a problem. If in a weak
signal area, they suddenly have a problem. Since Apple or AT&T saw
fit to remove the field test mode application in the iPhone 4, it's
not possible for users to supply real numbers, resulting in some
really subjective guesswork.

<http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/202371/iphone_vs_everybody_battle_of_the_smartphone_death_grips.html>
...our informal tests indicate that different phone models do not
exhibit attenuation to the same degree--and the iPhone 4 performed
far worse when attenuated than did most of its competitors in our
tests. Most significantly, the iPhone 4--almost certainly because
of its innovative external antenna--was the only phone we tested
that has a distinct (and easily reachable) weak spot capable of
ending a call with a single touch.

That's roughly the same as what I found. The iPhone 4 is far worse
than the others I tested.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl(a)cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
From: nospam on 5 Aug 2010 01:48
In article <dnik56t7klh1o7eotlf4a51aqrambn6s5u(a)4ax.com>, Jeff
Liebermann <jeffl(a)cruzio.com> wrote:

> Fast forward about 15 years to the iPhone 4. If customers had not
> heard about the antenna problems in the press, they would probably
> blame the dropped calls on the much maligned AT&T wireless network.

yep, and a good part of it is at&t. people on other carriers aren't
reporting as many problems. norway said it's entirely at&t.

> I'm sure every iPhone 4 owner has tried the death grip test. If they
> were in a strong signal area, it wasn't a problem. If in a weak
> signal area, they suddenly have a problem. Since Apple or AT&T saw
> fit to remove the field test mode application in the iPhone 4, it's
> not possible for users to supply real numbers, resulting in some
> really subjective guesswork.

there's a very slick replacement called signal that plots the towers on
a map. jailbreak only.
From: Jeff Liebermann on 5 Aug 2010 02:13
On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 22:27:50 -0700, nospam <nospam(a)nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <nkgk565d1p8mk0g2bdsajtg4gpb3ke4umn(a)4ax.com>, Jeff
>Liebermann <jeffl(a)cruzio.com> wrote:
>
>> >now try real world tests.
>>
>> Is there a problem with my testing methods or results? If so, how is
>> it not a "real world" test? Have you tried your phone?
>
>does it drop calls, and if so, how often? how well can it make and
>receive calls compared to other phones?
>*that* is what matters in a phone.

Thank you for answering my questions with more questions. I presume
you don't have a problem with my testing methods or results and that
you haven't tried it on your phone(s).

My "real" world is a world of numbers. If you can't quantify it, it's
useless. A subjective test of the tendency to drop calls is tolerable
if there are no other numerical tests available. I can look at the
drop in signal strengths and tell that there's a problem. I can't do
the same with a random ossortment of dropped call complaints, which
might be due to an overloaded network, interference from other
services, location, user handling, and plenty of other situations that
have NOTHING to do with the antenna problem.

>> >changewave found that the iphone 4 is dropping *fewer* calls than the
>> >3gs, and roughly 80% of iphone 4 users don't find the antenna issue to
>> >be much of a problem, but they do think at&t sucks, the #1 complaint.
>>
>> Did you actually read the original article on which that's based? It's
>> a customer satisfaction survey, not a field test:
>
>i didn't say it was a field test.

You also didn't say if you had read the original article. Field tests
generate real numbers. Customer satisfaction surveys are at best a
statistical best guess. Even so, I find it rather odd that there was
considerable grumbling about the iPhone 4 in a survey of 213 first
adopters approximately 3 weeks after initial introduction. I would
think that the first adopters were the fanatics who would never admit
that there was something wrong. If the fanatics are that critical, I
wonder what the GUM (great unwashed masses) think of the iPhone 4?

>> <http://www.changewaveresearch.com/articles/2010/08/new_iphone4_owners_20100804.html>
> To gauge the impact of the antenna obstruction issue, we asked iPhone
> 4 owners to tell us how big of a problem it was for them. Nearly
> two-thirds reported they Haven�t Experienced Any Problem and another
> 14% reported it Wasn�t Much of a Problem.� However one-in-five did
> report it was Somewhat of a Problem (14%) or a Very Big Problem (7%).
>
>nearly 2/3 (65%) + 14% = 79%, which i rounded off to 80% as having
>little to no problem. that leaves 14% for somewhat and 7% for very big.

I missed that looking for the 80%. Converting that to numbers:
138 no problem
30 not much of a problem
15 big problem

79% had no problem, but in a later graph, 24% didn't like it because
of antenna problems. Ok, 5% are lying or confused.

>yet the return rate is much lower than the 3gs. how do you explain that?

The status value of an iPhone 4 is worth more than a few dropped
calls. The free rubber bumper reduces the problem sufficiently for
most users to not consider it an issue. AT&T is being more flexible
on its minimum mandatory data plan at $15/mo. The current buyers are
substantially upgrades from previous iPhone in the hope that the
iPhone 4 will be better. It takes some time (30 days) to dash their
hopes. However, all those are minor compared to the minor detail that
the 3G's were on the market much longer than iPhone 4, and therefore
have had longer to accumulate irate customers.

>again, people *who actually own the phone* are generally satisfied with
>it. not everyone, but then again, no product will satisfy everyone.

Yep. I agree there. There are plenty of other products and services
that are far from perfect, that I just pay the money and blunder
onward. Good enough is just one notch up from mediocrity. I did not
expect the iPhone 4 to be perfect, but I also didn't expect Steve Jobs
to downplay the problems by performing a misleading comparison with
other phones. If nobody complains, nothing happens. I'm complaining
while you're apparently trusting and accepting.

>if it was a big deal, then the satisfaction rates would not be that
>high and the return rate wouldn't be that low.

Perhaps you have a problem with numbers? 213 first adopters were
surveyed approximately 3 weeks after initial introduction. What did
you expect? Of course everyone will be satisified. I was rather
surprised at how many were not. 213 buyers could easily have come
from one store and is a VERY small sample. With 3 million buyers, I
would want to see a survey of a minimum of about 0.1% of the user
base, or 3,000 users. Also, customer satisfaction surveys tend to
guide the people to the desired response. I would want to see what
questions were asked and under what circumstances before declaring
this survey to be indicative of the general population.

>also note that at&t's call drop rate is on an upward trend and just
>about *triple* that of verizon. at&t really does suck.

I'm on Verizon and get very few dropped calls. I would say they all
suck, but AT&T seems to suck the worst.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl(a)cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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